GFCI for 240V Dryer Receptacles

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xformer

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Master Electrician
Hello,
Can anyone point me to the justification for the code making panel for the change in 2020 code to article 210.8 A?
 
xformer said:
Hello,
Can anyone point me to the justification for the code making panel for the change in 2020 code to article 210.8 A?
Click to expand...
Can ask same question for many changes to that section for the past 20 years.

I think answer is "because we can" more so than any real justification. I remember looking at the ROP's (whatever they are called now) for 2017 in particular the ones that included 3 phase circuits and that basically was all they had for justification is we now have that ability.
 
Re: Dryer, someone was shocked is what I recall. All the PIs and PCs are available at NFPA.
But there have been cases where GFCI was added with no issues, such as water coolers. Clearly, GFCIs have saved many lives. I instructed code classes starting with 96 code. Every code cycle I would say there are more GFCI requirements. Now its easier to say what doesn't have to be GFCI than what does.
One change was interesting, GFCI on all outdoor, 15, 20 A 125 V where accessible to the public. I did a lot of classes on military bases, which are not accessible to the public. That got changed then next cycle.
 
xformer said:
Hello,
Can anyone point me to the justification for the code making panel for the change in 2020 code to article 210.8 A?
Click to expand...

Being candid it boils down to the CMPs failing to define 250.4 (A) (5).

The unwritten goal is to eventually require ground fault and arc fault protection on all circuits vs adding a simple clarification to (5).

If a short circuit at the dryer receptacle is capable or tripping the associated breaker in 1 second or less zero technical substantiation for GFCI exists.

Just getting the message out :)
 
kwired said:
Can ask same question for many changes to that section for the past 20 years.

I think answer is "because we can" more so than any real justification. I remember looking at the ROP's (whatever they are called now) for 2017 in particular the ones that included 3 phase circuits and that basically was all they had for justification is we now have that ability.
Click to expand...


They have an inference, but they don't want to say what that is.
 
tom baker said:
Re: Dryer, someone was shocked is what I recall. All the PIs and PCs are available at NFPA.
But there have been cases where GFCI was added with no issues, such as water coolers. Clearly, GFCIs have saved many lives. I instructed code classes starting with 96 code. Every code cycle I would say there are more GFCI requirements. Now its easier to say what doesn't have to be GFCI than what does.
One change was interesting, GFCI on all outdoor, 15, 20 A 125 V where accessible to the public. I did a lot of classes on military bases, which are not accessible to the public. That got changed then next cycle.
Click to expand...
Dryer itself wasn't specifically added, they just included more receptacle types to what was already in 210.8. Could possibly be an incident involving a dryer helped contribute to the changes though. If so I'd bet something wasn't code compliant with that installation though, or damages occurred since installation that compromised the situation.
 
I'm going to guess that its related to people having a 4 wire dryer with the N-G strap still installed.

But those types would call out a handyman 'my dryer isn't working, the appliance guy says I need an electrician' and the handyman replaces the gfi breaker with a regular one 'you had the wrong breaker i installed the right one now it works'
 
Todd0x1 said:
I'm going to guess that its related to people having a 4 wire dryer with the N-G strap still installed.

But those types would call out a handyman 'my dryer isn't working, the appliance guy says I need an electrician' and the handyman replaces the gfi breaker with a regular one 'you had the wrong breaker i installed the right one now it works'
Click to expand...
That already sort of happened with appliances on 15/20 amp 120 volt circuits with GFCI protection that developed a ground fault but the appliance guy couldn't figure that out.
 
Check IRC 2021 changes for electrical, just went to class on changes in the electrical IRC 2021 , there was something in there about GFIC for 240V.
 
There had been several reported incidents of electric shock and electrocution related to dryer connection. One report was of a 4yr old who climbed behind the dryer to get to a puppy that made contact to the live conductors unclear whether on cord directly or the plug itself but she was fatally electrocuted. A lot of the reports had been a result of improper wireing (reversal of a hot/neutral). Thought probably is that GFCI would immediately trip on that issue.
Not sure if a GFCI would have prevented the death of the 4yr old given her likely size and available.
 
Fred B said:
There had been several reported incidents of electric shock and electrocution related to dryer connection. One report was of a 4yr old who climbed behind the dryer to get to a puppy that made contact to the live conductors unclear whether on cord directly or the plug itself but she was fatally electrocuted. A lot of the reports had been a result of improper wireing (reversal of a hot/neutral). Thought probably is that GFCI would immediately trip on that issue.
Not sure if a GFCI would have prevented the death of the 4yr old given her likely size and available.
Click to expand...
So one incident that probably had something rather unusual about it?

Like plug not fully engaged into receptacle, broken receptacle body (seen this with surface style several times), missing terminal cover on the appliance....
 
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