Gfci for two wire circuits

[Cbird]

What’s the best way to put three prong outlets on two wire circuits?
I’ve heard that it’s best to put gfci in every outlet. Reason being that one gfci upstream with a load won’t hold due to the switch loops in older homes. Also they are on screw in fuses.

 

[James L]

Sometimes the boxes are so small that you can't even fit a slim gfci in there with 2 NM cables.

Depending on how many you're talking about, it might be a lot less time and materials to just swap the whole panel and use dual function breakers

 

[Cbird]

I agree they should have dual breakers but fuses are in kitchen cabinet. There’s only 25 outlets in whole house my dilemma is whether a load will hold on a gfci due to switch loops which I’m hearing negative things about

 

[James L]

I've never experienced or heard of tripping caused by switch loops.

Maybe if neutrals are switched

 

[ptonsparky]

Old metal boxes just don't have the Cu In needed as pointed out. Sometimes the screws holding the box ears on won't allow a GFCI into the box. I've used wiremold extensions but not too many customers want see those.

Good luck.

 

[Cbird]

I've never experienced or heard of tripping caused by switch loops.

Maybe if neutrals are switched

Old metal boxes just don't have the Cu In needed as pointed out. Sometimes the screws holding the box ears on won't allow a GFCI into the box. I've used wiremold extensions but not too many customers want see those.

Good luck.

We get them to go with two 14’s and change boxes where we have to. But I agree it’s probably a box fill violation

 

[brantmacga]

It’s possible the issue you are thinking of is shared neutrals (MWBC’s) which is common in older homes. Especially common where more than one circuit is present in a switch box; all of the neutrals are usually tied together.

It’s easier to use breakers where possible.

If you need to use receps and the boxes are too small, you should consider replacing the devices boxes with something like an Arlington OneBox. Southwire has a version called “Smart Box.” For single gang boxes it usually takes me about 15 min per box to change them. An oscillating multi-tool works best for cutting the nails out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ramsy]

It’s possible the issue you are thinking of is shared neutrals (MWBC’s) which is common in older homes. Especially common where more than one circuit is present in a switch box; all of the neutrals are usually tied together.

Yes, GFCI breakers will trip with switch loops on red leg for example & plugs on black leg, of same shared neutral.

I’ve heard that it’s best to put gfci in every outlet.

$500 in parts for 25 GFCI outlets, or $1000 if AFCI is also required, just to keep an old fusebox in the cupboard, is ridiculous.

2-prong plugs per 406.4(D)2 are legal on existing General Purpose circuits without 3-prong appliances.

For clients that demand 3-prong plugs bonding per 406.4(D)1, & perhaps 3-wire branch extensions, satisfy 250.114 for SABC's where GFCI's can not.

 

[Fred B]

There also can be a 210.12 requirement as well, just to mess it up even more.
That will make it even worse for an old small box, a GFCI slim might fit but the new dual AFCI/GFCI receptacle would never fit.

Is this really an unground circuit? Seen lots of rag wire install that they simply back wrapped the ground and it is just in the clamping device, or they just cut it off. If you have truly ungrounded circuits like the old K&T your customer may have bigger issues than "I just want to change my receptacle color to match my wall color". (Got a lot of those calls, and that actually have compromised K&T installation.)
Now what gets me is why I go in and see new yellow rope, home owner says "oh it all been rewired xx years ago", and then find the original installer had cut off all the ground wire way back in the box.
Why? (Mostly rhetorical)

 

[kwired]

I agree they should have dual breakers but fuses are in kitchen cabinet. There’s only 25 outlets in whole house my dilemma is whether a load will hold on a gfci due to switch loops which I’m hearing negative things about

Switch loop should only be a problem if it switches to a conductor not protected by the same GFCI, and/or other side of the load is not connected back through the same GFCI. That would make unbalanced current through the GFCI and make it trip.