GFCI protection for shower light?

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sw_ross

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We generally install cans, whether line voltage (Halo H7, with shower trim) or low voltage (can't remember specs, but uses mr16 lamp) in shower/tub areas. My boss wants them GFCI protected. We usually do that by running the lighting circuit power through a general use receptacle located on a convenient wall in the bathroom (not connected to the 20A required receptacle circuit located at vanity) then up to the shower light switch. That way if it trips they can be reset without a trip in your bathrobe to the mechanical room.

I thought it was just something he wanted in an effort to go 'above and beyond', but then I've heard him recently make comments about it being required by code. I can't find any code that requires this. The only thing I see that would require GFCI protection is if the manufacturer requires GFCI protection. 410.4D tells you what types of lighting fixtures you can't put in a shower or tub area, and that the fixture that you put in this area has to be listed for wet locations if subject to shower spray. I can't find anything that talks about "GFCI protection for all shower lights".

As long as we install cans with trim listed for use (shower trim) I don't see where they have to be GFCI protected. The only thing I can see that would require GFCI protection is if the Manufacturer requires it (which doesn't apply to what we generally install, I think).

If anyone has feedback about some code that I might be missing I'd like to hear it. I'm not looking for proof that my boss is wrong, I just need to understand if I'm missing something here. Someday I might have this question on my j-man's test.

Thanks,
Sky
 
For GFCI protection requirements, check 210.8

Generally, it is the manufacturer's instructions that require GFCI protection for equipment over a tub or shower. Just about every exhaust fan or fan/light combo I have encountered have instructions that require GFCI protection, but I have never seen a recess light require it.

That said, it is not a bad idea.
 
No, you are correct. The NEC does not address GFCI protection for luminaires in bathrooms. 110.3(B) would apply for the manufacturers instructions...

Keep in mind that unless you are meeting the excpetion to 210.11(C)(3), you are not permitted to serve lighting outlets off receptacles located in the bathroom.
 
Thanks. We usually don't install the fan/light (Broan) in the shower area, so I haven't looked to see about whether Broan requires GFCI protection, but I'll read their specs just so I know.

210.8 is mostly what I'm aware of pertaining to GFCI protection, and we follow it always. We also keep the bathroom lights separate from the 20A bathroom receptacle circuit, as 210.11 talks about, we just run the power through a general purpose receptacle (a lot of times we'll install a 'deadfront' GFI, not a receptacle) and then up to the shower switch.

Sky
 
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When inspecting, I check the cans at R.I. for instructions. I have found a few lights with GFCI requirements (sorry don't recall the brand) and most, if not all, of the light-fan combos installed here have the GFCI requirement.
 
Nothing wrong with going above code.I do question the extra receptacle.Depending on what circuit it comes off of might be a violation.The dead front method would be the best.Personally i think he wasted money.If you do this on every house it adds up fast.Bottom line is its his company and he makes the calls.Invite him to the forum.
 
From UL White Book

FANS, ELECTRIC (GPWV)
Ceiling-insert fans, wall-insert fans, and ceiling-insert fan/light combinations intended to be mounted over bathtubs, showers, or within the zone above the bathtub and shower area as defined by Article 410 of the NEC, and marked "Acceptable for use over a bathtub or shower when installed in a GFCI protected branch circuit".
 
I always gfci anything in the shower area although I dont believe it is required. I come off the load of the gfci receptacle and go to a switch outside of the designated tub/shower area then up to the can with a shower rated freznel lens. If it trips the room doesnt go dark because it is not on the lighting ckt.
 
quogueelectric said:
I always gfci anything in the shower area although I dont believe it is required. I come off the load of the gfci receptacle and go to a switch outside of the designated tub/shower area then up to the can with a shower rated freznel lens. If it trips the room doesnt go dark because it is not on the lighting ckt.
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I do the same. I always dedicate a circuit to each bathroom's rec, so I have that spare load side to utilize this way. It's one of the 'above code' things that makes good sense to me, and doesn't cost anything.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
....Depending on what circuit it comes off of might be a violation.The dead front method would be the best....
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21011(C)(3) only state you need at least one 20a branch for a bathroom. No violation if you exceed that in adding another 15. If adding the circuit creates a local-code violation, use a blank-face GFI instead of a receptacle type.

Personally, I use the bath circuit from the load side of the bath GFI.
 
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bpgravity, i thought the code states u can put lighting on the gfci receptacle circuit as long as u don't leave that particular bathroom with that circuit? i could be mistaken though.
 
cloudymacleod said:
bpgravity, i thought the code states u can put lighting on the gfci receptacle circuit as long as u don't leave that particular bathroom with that circuit? i could be mistaken though.
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You are correct but I don't think Brian stated that.

Keep in mind that unless you are meeting the excpetion to 210.11(C)(3), you are not permitted to serve lighting outlets off receptacles located in the bathroom.
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Check out 210.11(C)(3)
 
I would say for the most part we use a dead front gfi located at receptacle height (~16") on a wall near the shower area, then run up to the switch. I think there might have been a time or two where we put a regular GFI receptacle in that spot when didn't have access to a dead front.

Like I said, initially I thought it was an 'above code' decision on my bosses part, but then I've heard him talk about it being required by code. I've always thought I'm okay with it, either way, but recently I've been thinking about it and I need to know for my own sake in case it comes into question and I'm responsible for knowing the answer!

I think it's okay if its a receptacle (not on the same circuit as the required 20Amp circuit for the vanity), I don't see where it says you can't have more than one receptacle circuit in the bathroom?

Anyways, thanks for the replies. You're all helping with my learnin'. I'm just trying to do my homework before I question my boss about this issue. Like I said if he wants to do it, that's okay with me, I just don't think it's required unless the manufacturer instructions say so.

Sky
 
sw_ross said:
Like I said, initially I thought it was an 'above code' decision on my bosses part, but then I've heard him talk about it being required by code. I've always thought I'm okay with it, either way, but recently I've been thinking about it and I need to know for my own sake in case it comes into question and I'm responsible for knowing the answer!
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I agree. Let him think it's part of the code if you agree with the general idea, but it is good to know yourself, for sure. Realistically, it ads no cost to the work if you do it off the load side of that bathroom's dedicated bath receptacle circuit. I'm not really sure why you would want to use the goofy idea of dead front GFCI's for this work. I guess there's a way to over design the simplest of issues if you put your mind to it.
 
480sparky said:
21011(C)(3) only state you need at least one 20a branch for a bathroom. No violation if you exceed that in adding another 15.
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In the scenario given it would be my opinion that you are creating a violation if you install a gfci receptacle that is NOT supplied by the required 20 amp circuit(s) for the bathroom.

I do not buy the argument that once you satisfy the requirement for one 20 amp circuit you can do whatever you want (ex install a recptacle fed from a general purpose branch cicuit) and I feel this backs me up.

210.11(C)(3) In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.

It does NOT say "supply required bathroom receptacles" it says "bathroom receptacles" Pretty clear that if there is a receptacle in the bathroom it has to be supplied by the 20 amp circuit.


Any way, no need to gfci can over shower but if you wanted to just feed it from the bath gfi provided that the circuit feeds ONLY that bathroom..
 
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electricmanscott said:
210.11(C)(3) In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
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Key words here are at least. You need at least one 20a circuit. You can always put in another circuit if you wish.

I've done kitchens that have had 4 SABCs. I need at least two. I've had houses with two laundries. I put in two laundry circuits, where I need at least one.
 
mdshunk said:
I do the same. I always dedicate a circuit to each bathroom's rec, so I have that spare load side to utilize this way. It's one of the 'above code' things that makes good sense to me, and doesn't cost anything.
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They say great minds think alike :smile: . I can still remember a customers call in a panic because he had just almost got electrocuted in the tub of a bathroom I had just wired. I ran right over there and found that the plumber had run a 3" tapcon screw to fasten the fancy grabbar for one of those 3,000$ shower setups The customer was naked in the shower held the grabbar for balance (at that point became energized) then went to flip the diverter valve. When he grabed the diverter valve he was getting the buisness end of a 3" tapcon screw that was driven into a plastic box servicing the kitchen which was on the other side of the wall. Holding the 2 kitchen small appliance branch circuits and right into one of the non gfci hots in the box very efectively energizing the entire grabbar. He was hung up across the chest in the tub and couldnt let go for some time he wasnt sure how long but he thought he was dead for sure. He looked like a ghost. Moral of the story dont mess around in the tub area. Although it was the plumbers fault Everyone tries to sue the electrician when someone gets electrocuted.
 
quogueelectric said:
They say great minds think alike :smile: . I can still remember a customers call in a panic because he had just almost got electrocuted in the tub of a bathroom I had just wired. I ran right over there and found that the plumber had run a 3" tapcon screw to fasten the fancy grabbar for one of those 3,000$ shower setups The customer was naked in the shower held the grabbar for balance (at that point became energized) then went to flip the diverter valve. When he grabed the diverter valve he was getting the buisness end of a 3" tapcon screw that was driven into a plastic box servicing the kitchen which was on the other side of the wall. Holding the 2 kitchen small appliance branch circuits and right into one of the non gfci hots in the box very efectively energizing the entire grabbar. He was hung up across the chest in the tub and couldnt let go for some time he wasnt sure how long but he thought he was dead for sure. He looked like a ghost. Moral of the story dont mess around in the tub area. Although it was the plumbers fault Everyone tries to sue the electrician when someone gets electrocuted.
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If we look at everything like that we best start installing gfci on everything.We might also have a county inspector check them every month.Had we required emt in homes this would not happened,so what that it cost an extra 2 grand.
 
I like to feed to the G F C I Then you can run from the GFCI to the vainity light for example from the line side. then come off the load side to feed the switch for the shower can. this way if the gfci trips you are not totally in the dark. and the light in the shower is gfci protected.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
If we look at everything like that we best start installing gfci on everything.We might also have a county inspector check them every month.Had we required emt in homes this would not happened,so what that it cost an extra 2 grand.
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I never said I look at everything like that just the tub /shower light and it cost me a big fat 0 to install because everything had to be run anyway and I tookit off an existing had to be there gfci so what are you talking about??? Please explain further minimum electric.
 
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