GFCI protection for stoves??

[brother]

Does the new 2020 NEC require that 240 volt 50 amp or less stoves need gfci protection. Is this for dwelling units only? and what was the justification if it is true? I haven't had to buy a 50 amp gfci breaker, and what about these neutral to ground bond on some of these old houses and stoves, this will cause some issues.

 

[Fred B]

Does the new 2020 NEC require that 240 volt 50 amp or less stoves need gfci protection. Is this for dwelling units only? and what was the justification if it is true? I haven't had to buy a 50 amp gfci breaker, and what about these neutral to ground bond on some of these old houses and stoves, this will cause some issues.

I've been told that it is because someone, child or animal had gotten behind the appliance and gotten shocked from a partially removed plug exposing the live conductors. Been told it applies also for dryers and AC compressor units. As far as old installs I believe that this would fall into the same category as other work, if you aren't upgrading or changing what is there, no need to upgrade to current code.

 

[brother]

I've been told that it is because someone, child or animal had gotten behind the appliance and gotten shocked from a partially removed plug exposing the live conductors. Been told it applies also for dryers and AC compressor units. As far as old installs I believe that this would fall into the same category as other work, if you aren't upgrading or changing what is there, no need to upgrade to current code.

What specific article is that that requires the stove to be gfci in dwelling units, someone told me the gfci requirement is for counter tops only, so the stove would not be affected, then another person says it would be affected. I dont have the 2020 in front of me to find it right off hand.

 

[ptonsparky]

Try 210.8(A)(7) Sinks---where receptacles are installed within1.8m (6ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink.

 

[Hv&Lv]

No, unless it’s within 6’ of the sink

2020 Code Language:

210.8(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (A)⁠(11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

(1) Bathrooms

(2) Garages and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use

(3) Outdoors

Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a branch circuit dedicated to electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline and vessel heating equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance with 426.28 or 427.22, as applicable.

(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level

(5) Basements

Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.

Informational Note: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply requirements for fire alarm systems.

Receptacles installed under the exception to 210.8(A)⁠(5) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G).

(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces

(7) Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink

(8) Boathouses

(9) Bathtubs or shower stalls — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the bathtub or shower stall

(10) Laundry areas

Exception to (1) through (3), (5) through (8), and (10): Listed locking support and mounting receptacles utilized in combination with compatible attachment fittings installed for the purpose of serving a ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan shall not be required to be ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected. If a general-purpose convenience receptacle is integral to the ceiling luminaire or ceiling fan, GFCI protection shall be provided.

(11) Indoor damp and wet locations

 

[Hv&Lv]

See if this video helps

 

[Dennis Alwon]

However your dryer will need gfci if it is in any of those area listed above. It is very likely to be in one of them.

 

[retirede]

However your dryer will need gfci if it is in any of those area listed above. It is very likely to be in one of them.

An area where a dryer is installed is, by definition, a “laundry area”. So its receptacle will always require GFCI protection.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

An area where a dryer is installed is, by definition, a “laundry area”. So its receptacle will always require GFCI protection.

I can argue that if the washer was in a different spot. To launder means to wash not dry. LOL

 

[don_resqcapt19]

There was an attempt to get the sink GFCI rule that applies to 30 amp and up to take effect in 2023 but the TIA failed.

The technical substantiation was that the long ocean shipping times allow the heating elements to soak up moisture and that in some cases you will not be able to get the stove or range to hold on a GFCI breaker. This is a "transient" issue as it goes away once you get the elements up to heat and keep them hot for 5 or so minutes. The problem is that you may not be able get them up to heat to dry out when they are on a GFCI protected circuit.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I can argue that if the washer was in a different spot. To launder means to wash not dry. LOL

The term "laundry area" is a defined term in the 2020 NEC. If the washer is in a different area from the dryer, you would have two laundry areas.

An area containing or designed to contain a laundry tray, clothes washer, or clothes dryer.

Note that it says "designed to contain", so even if the appliances are not there, it is still a laundry area.

A "laundry tray" is laundry tub, or basin, also know as a utility sink or basin.

 

[kwired]

Does the new 2020 NEC require that 240 volt 50 amp or less stoves need gfci protection. Is this for dwelling units only? and what was the justification if it is true? I haven't had to buy a 50 amp gfci breaker, and what about these neutral to ground bond on some of these old houses and stoves, this will cause some issues.

The major change in 2020 NEC wasn't that they added "stoves" but that they changed from 15-20 amp 120 volt receptacles requiring GFCI in the places mentioned in 210.8(A) to "all receptacles 125 to 250 volts... operating at 150 volts or less to ground"

receptacles within 6 feet of the sink already were required but only for 15/20 amp 120 volt, now the range receptacle falls into the change of voltage/current levels. A hard wired cooking appliance would not require GFCI, just any receptacles in areas mentioned.

Only appliances that require GFCI (even if hardwired) are the dishwasher that was there before and now outdoor AC units, or if it is something covered by say art 680 or something of that nature.

 

[retirede]

I can argue that if the washer was in a different spot. To launder means to wash not dry. LOL

Per the NEC definition, it’s a laundry area if it contains “a laundry tray, washer or dryer.”

The OR is what nails it down.

 

[WasGSOHM]

I've been told that it is because someone, child or animal had gotten behind the appliance and gotten shocked from a partially removed plug exposing the live conductors.

Unlike Schiavo [who] wrote Flying Blind, Flying Safe, who was told that not enough people had died yet concerning some airplane defect. The guy who said that was not lying. He opened her eyes.
So, she called the FAA a tombstone agency who regulates safety by counting tombstones.

 

[kwired]

I've been told that it is because someone, child or animal had gotten behind the appliance and gotten shocked from a partially removed plug exposing the live conductors. Been told it applies also for dryers and AC compressor units. As far as old installs I believe that this would fall into the same category as other work, if you aren't upgrading or changing what is there, no need to upgrade to current code.

The way I see it is 2017 they added similar requirements for 150 volt to ground or less up to 50 amps for non dwellings, and also included three phase applications. Only justification I could find reading through the ROP's (or whatever they are now called) was something to the effect "we now have devices that can do this", no actual incidents were even cited. I kind of doubt there really is a very high number of incidents outside of 15/20 amp 125 volt applications where missing EGC pins is a contributing factor to these incidents even happening in the first place.

I figured that changes were likely coming in next code for dwellings "just because" and pretty much did happen.

Read carefully though it isn't a general requirement for ranges or dryers but rather based on receptacle location. Location pretty much makes the dryer receptacle always in a location that requires it. The range would need to be within six feet of the sink in most kitchens, but could still be required if range were in a basement, garage, etc.

The AC unit does not depend on there being a receptacle. And would be very rare for a receptacle to even be allowed other than self contained easily movable units.

 

[Fred B]

The way I see it is 2017 they added similar requirements for 150 volt to ground or less up to 50 amps for non dwellings, and also included three phase applications. Only justification I could find reading through the ROP's (or whatever they are now called) was something to the effect "we now have devices that can do this", no actual incidents were even cited. I kind of doubt there really is a very high number of incidents outside of 15/20 amp 125 volt applications where missing EGC pins is a contributing factor to these incidents even happening in the first place.

I figured that changes were likely coming in next code for dwellings "just because" and pretty much did happen.

Read carefully though it isn't a general requirement for ranges or dryers but rather based on receptacle location. Location pretty much makes the dryer receptacle always in a location that requires it. The range would need to be within six feet of the sink in most kitchens, but could still be required if range were in a basement, garage, etc.

The AC unit does not depend on there being a receptacle. And would be very rare for a receptacle to even be allowed other than self contained easily movable units.

Is it the receptacle or the appliance? Most stoves I've installed the receptacle is outside of the 6 ft range but the appliance is within 6 ft.

 

[ptonsparky]

The section reads “receptacles”.

 

[kwired]

Is it the receptacle or the appliance? Most stoves I've installed the receptacle is outside of the 6 ft range but the appliance is within 6 ft.

Over the years 210.8 has primarily been just about receptacles, other specific items were covered in other code sections. About only non receptacle items covered were boat hoists and more recently dishwashers, anything else needing GFCI was covered by other than 210.8

2020 does mention some those other things in 210.8(D) but basically says to see other sections for details.

210.8(A) and (B) still only apply to receptacle outlets and are not driven by what is plugged into them.

If range receptacle is within 6 feet of sink, and not just any part of the range, then as written the receptacle is what requires GFCI protection.

 

[Prosper]

Ok, we are now in the 220 GFI era. On our first experiences we can’t get a plug in range or dryer to hold on the GFI breaker. What now. I’m sure it’s more to do with internal wiring of the appliance . As soon as we plug it in it trips. ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Ok, we are now in the 220 GFI era. On our first experiences we can’t get a plug in range or dryer to hold on the GFI breaker. What now. I’m sure it’s more to do with internal wiring of the appliance . As soon as we plug it in it trips. ?

Is this a 3 wire or 4 wire unit? Is the Neutral and ground separated in the dryer and range. Many of the dryers and ranges come shipped with the neutral and ground tied together with a strap.