GFCI protection in commercial or institutional locations

[jshaw]

I am looking at the NEC 210.8 (A)(7) which requires all receptacles installed in dwelling units within 6 ft of the outside edge of a sink to have GFCI protection. However, when I look in 210.8 (B) "other than dwelling units", I can find no reference to having GFCI protection within any distance of a sink, except in bathrooms. There is no reference to sinks anywhere.

So, I did a final inspection on 2 elementary schools. There is a sink in every classroom. Although I did require GFCI protection, I can't see in the code where it would be required. Also, I did a final on an optical shop that has three different areas that have sinks with receptacles located near by. Again, I required the GFCI protection, but after looking at the code, I'm wondering if the EC wanted to argue about being required to add GFCI protection in these locations, if I would have to change my position. None of these locations meets the specifications of a bathroom or a kitchen.

Opinions please. Thanks

 

[iwire]

There are not required in either case.

Your likely to get hammered by the members here for requiring them.

For what it's worth I have installed them in areas that they where not required but made me feel better.

 

[jshaw]

That's why I looked it up in the code. I questioned requiring them in the optical shop and wanted to be ready if the EC called me on it. He didn't. But at the elementary schools, next to a sink where small children will be spending alot of time, I think they were probably spec'd by the electrical engineer whether I would have required them or not.

 

[iwire]

That's why I looked it up in the code.

In my opinion it is a bit surprising that there is no requirement.

But at the elementary schools, next to a sink where small children will be spending alot of time, I think they were probably spec'd by the electrical engineer whether I would have required them or not.

I did a daycare center with the same situation.

Outlets show right beside each class room sink without GFCI protection called for by the specs.

My project manager and I discussed it and decided providing GFCI receptacles for free was the right thing to do.

Still would not have wanted an inspector to require them, if they asked me to provide I would probably try to go along with it.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I do many medical offices and we always put gfci next to that sink in exam rooms.Till now i assumed they were required.Inspectors can make mistakes too.No problem if they admit it and back down.Why are we not requiring them here ?

 

[iwire]

Why are we not requiring them here ?

I would imagine no one has put in a proposal to require GFCIs in those locations with enough evidence in the substantiation of the need for GFCI protection in these areas.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I would imagine no one has put in a proposal to require GFCIs in those locations with enough evidence in the substantiation of the need for GFCI protection in these areas.

They have always been part of the specs on jobs i done.Perhaps most have just been doing this ,so no problem to fix

 

[iwire]

They have always been part of the specs on jobs i done.

Most times that is also the same for us.

The employee break rooms we always talk about here will almost always be shown with GFCI receptacles at each outlet regardless if there are permanent cooking means. The specs will also prohibit us from 'load siding' the GFCIs either.

 

[infinity]

It would have been nice if the inspector had checked the code book before writing up a violation that doesn't exist. The fact that the EC didn't challenge the bogus requirement doesn't make it right. We can look at this as an honest mistake, but it should also be a lesson learned about what happens when you're shooting from the hip.

 

[cpal]

2008 pre print 210.8(B)

(5) Sinks ? where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m
(6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink. [ROP 2?81]

Charlie

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

It would have been nice if the inspector had checked the code book before writing up a violation that doesn't exist. The fact that the EC didn't challenge the bogus requirement doesn't make it right. We can look at this as an honest mistake, but it should also be a lesson learned about what happens when you're shooting from the hip.

Inspectors usually are electricians for many years first.They have it stuck in head that a gfci is required in certain places.They change hats and what they thought was code sticks in there minds.Inspections are like a test.If you feel that he made a mistake then call him on it.Now if this happens too often then go to his chief.If all inspectors cited code number for everything this might never happened.

 

[iwire]

Lets not beat up an inspector who was trying to find the correct answer.

It looks like he was just ahead of the curve, 2008 there will be something to cite.