GFCI Protection on Basement Receptacle

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shortcircuit2

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Would a single-phase 240-volt, 30-amp receptacle outlet in an unfinished basement of a 24 unit multifamily dwelling building require GFCI protection under 210.8(B) of the 2017 Code?
 
I like your interpretation. Although I think it could be interpreted that the basement is associated with the dwelling units.

I am curious as to why the new rule is only for 210.8(B) applications, "other than dwelling units", and not for dwelling units where there is an equal hazard probability...at least in the unfinished basement of a dwelling unit.
 
shortcircuit2 said:
I like your interpretation. Although I think it could be interpreted that the basement is associated with the dwelling units.

I am curious as to why the new rule is only for 210.8(B) applications, "other than dwelling units", and not for dwelling units where there is an equal hazard probability...at least in the unfinished basement of a dwelling unit.
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Well if you're now saying that the basement is part of the dwelling unit then that kind of changes what you stated in the OP. So if it is part of the unit then you're correct no GFCI protection is required under the 2017 NEC.
 
infinity said:
Well if you're now saying that the basement is part of the dwelling unit then that kind of changes what you stated in the OP. So if it is part of the unit then you're correct no GFCI protection is required under the 2017 NEC.
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Well, you can not access the basement from the dwelling units, but it is part of the same structure.

Some of these multi-family structures may or may not provide access to the dwellers. For example, I have seen instances where each dwelling unit will have access to the basement area where there is a caged area for seasonal storage,etc for each unit. Other instances of these structures may not provide access to the dwellers as only equipment may be down there such as furnaces, hot water heaters, etc. and the building owner is the only one accessing the basement space.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Unfinished areas of a basement are required to be gfci in a dwelling
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I was opening a discussion to the applicability of the new 2017 210.8(B) to a multi-family structure with unfinished basements.

This could be dwelling type structures such as...


  1. A high or low rise apartment building
  2. A high or low rise condo building

All with a common unfinished basements.
 
Here's the 2017 NEC definition of a dwelling unit, IMO you would be hard pressed to call a unfinished basement accessible to all occupants a part of the dwelling unit.

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and inde‐pendent living facilities for one or more persons, including
permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanita‐
tion.
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240 volt GFCI protection

240 volt GFCI protection

What type of breaker or receptacle is available for 240V 30 amp circuits?
 
Greg1707 said:
What type of breaker or receptacle is available for 240V 30 amp circuits?
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30 amp GFCI breakers do exist (both sp and dp) -Siemens, Sqd, GE, etc do make them.

And obviously you don't need to worry about having a receptacle of said rating if you have the breaker to protect receptacle.:)
 
manic67 said:
Doesn't it say 150v or less?
If you are using 240v, it's not required to have GFCI.
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I says 150 volts to ground or less . A 240 volt circuit would still be 120 volts to ground from either leg.

210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All single-phase receptaclesrated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less and three-
phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less,
100 amperes or less installed in the following locations shall
have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
 
So if one put a laundry room in said basement, do you need GFCI protection on 30 amp electric dryer receptacles?

In a dwelling I think it is clear you don't need GFCI protection, but in other then dwelling applications it depends on what you call unfinished or not intended as habitable rooms.

Curious as to why the change, why just for other then dwellings. There are many on grade level applications that really aren't all that different then an unfinished basement but as worded they wouldn't require GFCI.
 
shortcircuit2 said:
Would a single-phase 240-volt, 30-amp receptacle outlet in an unfinished basement of a 24 unit multifamily dwelling building require GFCI protection under 210.8(B) of the 2017 Code?
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kwired said:
So if one put a laundry room in said basement, do you need GFCI protection on 30 amp electric dryer receptacles?

In a dwelling I think it is clear you don't need GFCI protection, but in other then dwelling applications it depends on what you call unfinished or not intended as habitable rooms.
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I find it hard to think of an electric clothes dryer in an unfinished basement of a 24 unit multifamily dwelling as being anything connected as part of any one of those dwelling units. Rather, the electric dryer is in the common area outside of the dwellings, i.e., in the "nondwelling" space of the building.
 
al hildenbrand said:
I find it hard to think of an electric clothes dryer in an unfinished basement of a 24 unit multifamily dwelling as being anything connected as part of any one of those dwelling units. Rather, the electric dryer is in the common area outside of the dwellings, i.e., in the "nondwelling" space of the building.
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I agree it is not connected as a part of any one of the dwelling units.

Now how do we determine what is "unfinished basement" which may or may not dictate the need for GFCI protection with the new change?

Yet is kind of stupid that for the same situation in an unfinished basement of an actual dwelling would not require GFCI:roll:

I'd like to know what the justification was for some of the changes to 210.8.
 
Now how do we determine what is "unfinished basement" which may or may not dictate the need for GFCI protection with the new change?
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They added areas that are not "habitable" to clear that up...

Yet is kind of stupid that for the same situation in an unfinished basement of an actual dwelling would not require GFCI:roll:
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I agree

I'd like to know what the justification was for some of the changes to 210.8.
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People getting electrocuted.
 
shortcircuit2 said:
They added areas that are not "habitable" to clear that up...

I agree



People getting electrocuted.
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Don't have my 2017 nearby at the moment, but I recall it saying unfinished basements or similar uninhabitable spaces or something like that.

Doesn't uninhabitable mean not suitable for living in - which if not talking about a dwelling in the first place is rather redundant isn't it?

People getting electrocuted - well that is the purpose of GFCI, but what was the justification for adding the outlets they did add to the new code? Was there statistical data that said such outlets were involved in electrocutions, or did the same manufacturers that pushed the AFCI's into code under questionable circumstances and that also would manufacture the majority of the GFCI's that would be used here again push to have these changes?
 
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