GFCI Protection

[wjf1551]

As a home inspector who covers Nassau and Suffolk Counties in New York, I inspect residential electrical installations. Recently I conducted 2 inspections that had some strange GFCI protection for required areas. The First was in a Home in the Village of Setauket, NY, where the 3 Second Floor Bathrooms had GFCI protection provided to them by a GFCI installed in a First Floor Powder Room. I believe that this may be a violation but could not find anything in the code that said it can be done. The Second was in a Home in the Village of Middle Island, NY, where Both Bathrooms and an Exterior Outlet has GFCI protection thru a GFCI installed on a Garage Outlet. This I also found to be a little strange since I believe that the Bathrooms are supposed to be on a separate circuit. Both of these homes are located within the Town of Brooklhaven which is responsible for issuing certificate of occupancy for all structures in the town area. The Town has had some legal troubles recently with several town inspectors being arrested for corruption charges. Are both of these homes within code or are they not? The Town currently follows the 2005 NEC for new installations. New York States does not have a statewide code but the State residential code follows the 1999 NEC with restrictions.

 

[iwire]

As far as what rooms / areas a particular circuit can supply that would depend on the code year the house was built under not what the code requires today.

As far as the GFCI protection it can be provided anywhere in the circuit as long as the receptacles that are required to be GFCI protected are down line from the GFCI device receptacle / breaker /faceless receptacle etc.

 

[wjf1551]

The Home in Setauket was built in 2005 and the one in Middle island was built in 1992

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Those configurations remind me of when I use to work for a Union shop in the 80's and we installed the GFCI protection very similar to that.

Were you inspecting 'new' GFCI installations or just happen to notice this during a part of your other inspections in those buildings?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

At one point residences were required to have GFCI protection on all outside receptacles, bathroom receptacles and within 6' of the kitchen sink as well as a few other places.
It was not uncommon to wire a powder room to the outdoor recep. or even the garage recep. to the bath circuit.

Today the requirements are different. One could, not recommended necessarily, wire all the bath receptacles together on one circuit with one GFI that feeds through to all the other bathroom receptacles.

So, yes, you could feed a basement powder room and a third floor bath on the same circuit and have one GFI control both bath recep.

But as Bob said, one should not require a house that was built and wired properly to be made to comply with todays code. If that were the case you would have to rewire portions of most houses built over 10 years ago and perhaps even 3 years ago since the code changes every 3 years.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

As a home inspector who covers Nassau and Suffolk Counties in New York, I inspect residential electrical installations. Recently I conducted 2 inspections that had some strange GFCI protection for required areas. The First was in a Home in the Village of Setauket, NY, where the 3 Second Floor Bathrooms had GFCI protection provided to them by a GFCI installed in a First Floor Powder Room. I believe that this may be a violation but could not find anything in the code that said it can be done.

That is legal, being built in 2005, as long as the bathroom receptacles only, and not lighting, is on the circuit.

The Second was in a Home in the Village of Middle Island, NY, where Both Bathrooms and an Exterior Outlet has GFCI protection thru a GFCI installed on a Garage Outlet. This I also found to be a little strange since I believe that the Bathrooms are supposed to be on a separate circuit. Both of these homes are located within the Town of Brooklhaven which is responsible for issuing certificate of occupancy for all structures in the town area.

I wired houses (for a living) back in the mid 80's for Newbridge Electric, a local 25 shop. The typical layout then was ONE 15a circuit supplied by a GFCI feed-through receptacle in the garage or the 1st floor powder/bathroom, and then feed each and every required GFCI location from there.

The reason for this was economics - copper (14/2) was a lot cheaper than GFCI devices, ($40-$50 a pop if memory serves) also, GFCI devices used to walk off the finished jobs. At that time code did not require 20a bathroom circuits.

The Town has had some legal troubles recently with several town inspectors being arrested for corruption charges. Are both of these homes within code or are they not? The Town currently follows the 2005 NEC for new installations. New York States does not have a statewide code but the State residential code follows the 1999 NEC with restrictions.

I don't think that electrical inspections were done by town inspectors, either then or now.

 

[wjf1551]

Electrical inspections are done by private agencies under a contract with the towns and incorporated villages of these two counties. The point I am trying to make with the first one, Setauket, is that seems to be a little lazy on the part of the electrician not to provide protection on each level of the house for the homeowner's convienence. In the second case, Middle Island, the new owner may have to have the circuits rewired to satisfy town requirements.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

For whatever the reason was, it's legal to distribute one 20a circuit to feed all bathroom receptacles. Convenient, I suppose not, but code compliant nonetheless.

The house in Middle Island, built in '95 which has one 15a circuit feeding 2-3 bathrooms and outdoor outlets is also code compliant. What are the town's requirements for an existing home that would require rewiring previously code-compliant work?

 

[wjf1551]

Most areas here require that any renovations that are done be done according to the code that they are following.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Most areas here require that any renovations that are done be done according to the code that they are following.

I agree that new work must be done to the new code but existing installations do not have to be up to todays code.

If I add a bathroom on the third floor then I will be required to upgrade the receptacle to the new code.

If an existing bathroom is being remodeled and the receptacle does not have to be relocated then I do not believe that is a violation but I bet some inspectors would make you upgrade

 

[wbalsam1]

.......... The Town currently follows the 2005 NEC for new installations. New York States does not have a statewide code but the State residential code follows the 1999 NEC with restrictions.

If the Town of Brookhaven is going to adopt the 2005 NEC when the State Law is on the 1999 NEC, they have to file a request with the Department of State for a MRLS, more restrictive legal standard and show due cause and then the proposed rule would go before the Codes Council. Unless Brookhaven is very unique compared to the rest of the state, they won't get it.

Contrary to your post, New York State does have a statewide code. It has an electrical code within the Residential Code. This code is in effect in all areas of the state with the exception of NYC. For areas not covered in the RCNYS, the BCNYS, in Chapter 35, references the 1999 NEC.

Article 12-B of the Real Property Law establishes "The Home Inspector Professional Licensing Act", and sets out the required training modules of which module #2 deals with 25 hours of combined training on heating, cooling, plumbing, electric and structural components for 1 thru 4 family dwellings and their garages and carports, but not any newly constructed structures or not previously occupied as a dwelling.

I, for one, grow slightly apprehensive about "trained" individuals who may be in the wrong code book while making statements to the effect that the state does not have a statewide code. We've had a statewide building code (of which the electrical code is and has been referenced) since January 1st, 1984. :-?

 

[infinity]

Does the NYS code have any local amendments?

 

[wbalsam1]

Does the NYS code have any local amendments?

In accordance with Section 379 of Executive Law, communities may petition the state for more restrictive local standards. The Legislative body of the governmental entity may petition to determine if the proposed local law is more restrictive than the NYS Uniform Fire Prevention and Building Code in effect throughout all of NY with the exception of NYC. The Department of State reviews and the Codes Council may find that such higher or more restrictive standards are reasonably necessary because of special conditions prevailing within the local government. (See Section 379(2) of the NYSUFPBC Act.)
The Town of Brookhaven has several local laws passed thru Department of State, the last MRLS was LL#5 of 1992. The 2005 NEC was not a part of this.
To answer your question regarding state/local amendments see this site: http://www.dos.state.ny.us/code/mrls.htm