GFCI Receptacle in Weatherproof Box

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Little Bill

Little Bill

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Tennessee NEC:2017
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Semi-Retired Electrician
Say you have a 12"x12" nonmetallic weatherproof box and you need to install 120V receptacles in the box.
The box is mounted outside. Do you think GFCI receptacles would be required since it's inside the weatherproof box, cover held on with screws, no door?
 
jumper said:
By sleeved, I assume you mean a properly listed connector with appropriate strain relief.;)

Anyways, dry location IMO, which is good since a GFCI in that box would have readily accessible issues.
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This is for a sewer pump & alarm. Box is mounted on a post set beside tank. The pump cord and alarm control cord come out of the tank riser into a 2" conduit that connects to the weatherproof box.
That's what I was calling a "sleeve".
Inspector is requiring GFCI receptacles solely on the reason that it is outdoors.
My concern is if the receptacle for the alarm is a GFCI and it trips for some reason, the alarm won't go off should there be a problem with the pump/tank.
 
Little Bill said:
This is for a sewer pump & alarm. Box is mounted on a post set beside tank. The pump cord and alarm control cord come out of the tank riser into a 2" conduit that connects to the weatherproof box.
That's what I was calling a "sleeve".
Inspector is requiring GFCI receptacles solely on the reason that it is outdoors.
My concern is if the receptacle for the alarm is a GFCI and it trips for some reason, the alarm won't go off should there be a problem with the pump/tank.
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I agree with the inspector. I understand your thinking, but your stuck with gfci protection.

If your not on '17 yet you could run the whole thing 240V or hard wire it all. There's redundant alarms, wifi alarms, battery backups.

You could set up a regular maintenance account, check things out once a month for a fee.
 
Inspector is incorrect.

The inside of a weather tight/proof/resistant enclosure is not a wet location.

Else how would we have outdoor panels? They do not make wet location rated/listed breakers.
 
Little Bill said:
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The pump cord and alarm control cord come out of the tank riser into a 2" conduit that connects to the weatherproof box.
That's what I was calling a "sleeve".
Click to expand...

Just to shake things up a little, has any consideration been given to seals and to whether the inside of the tank (and some space around it?) is indeed a classified area?
 
jumper said:
Inspector is incorrect.

The inside of a weather tight/proof/resistant enclosure is not a wet location.

Else how would we have outdoor panels? They do not make wet location rated/listed breakers.
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You raise an excellent point.
But it isn't allowed to run romex in a wet location, even if it is in pvc conduit, it's still a wet location.
I used to install service panels outdoors, with a short 2 inch pvc pipe and LB, under the enclosure to get into the craw space under the house, through which I would pull mainly romex that went throughout the house, never failed an inspection for it; was surprised years later when I learned not to install romex in a wet location inside of pipe, because the pipe doesn't take away that it's a wet location. It makes sense to me now.

With a panel itself being in a wet location, I suppose I would fall back on the fact that it is listed to do so.
 
GoldDigger said:
Just to shake things up a little, has any consideration been given to seals and to whether the inside of the tank (and some space around it?) is indeed a classified area?
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The tank and riser are a listed unit with a factory KO for the 2" conduit to run the cords out to whatever houses the receptacles. It is my understanding that the receptacles used to be mounted inside the riser/tank top, now are required to be outside of the tank.
 
GoldDigger said:
Just to shake things up a little, has any consideration been given to seals and to whether the inside of the tank (and some space around it?) is indeed a classified area?
Click to expand...

Inside the tank, definitely classified.

Outside- not IME. Discos, control enclosures, and such were 4X at best, prolly 3R if not close.

Tanks are vented with risers so many feet high so not much chance of an explosive pocket building up.

As far as seals, basic duct seal stuffed into transition point leaving tank.

Note I am talking about basic lift stations with grinder pumps, nothing industrial.
 
LarrywdH said:
You raise an excellent point.
But it isn't allowed to run romex in a wet location, even if it is in pvc conduit, it's still a wet location.
I used to install service panels outdoors, with a short 2 inch pvc pipe and LB, under the enclosure to get into the craw space under the house, through which I would pull mainly romex that went throughout the house, never failed an inspection for it; was surprised years later when I learned not to install romex in a wet location inside of pipe, because the pipe doesn't take away that it's a wet location. It makes sense to me now.

With a panel itself being in a wet location, I suppose I would fall back on the fact that it is listed to do so.
Click to expand...

A lot of people have been red tagged for Romex in an exterior raceway.
 
Little Bill said:
The cover will remain on all the time. Cords are "sleeved" into the box.
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IMO GFCI not required for receptacle located inside this box - I have done similar with communications equipment - provide a NEMA 12 box with a receptacle inside and others install a modem/router, or other network equipment within. But that receptacle wasn't intended to serve anything outside the box either.

I have to question sleeving the cords into the box in this case - it that a way of using flexible cord for permanent wiring?
 
jumper said:
The pumps come prewired with a cord. How else would you be able to pull it to service/change it?

Ain't nobody gonna go to the bottom and disconnect a hard piped one.:cool:
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I know they do, and that is permitted by one or all of 400.7(A)(3),(6),(7),(8),(9), or (10).

But one can argue nearly every condition in 400.8 of uses not permitted is at least encroached upon in some way.

This gets complicated by the fact you put the receptacle in a box that otherwise has an electrical rating, though it sounds like what is inside of it probably could just as easily have been custom made out of "building materials" and accomplished about the same thing, which is to create a dry space for general use and not so much an electrical enclosure. If you entered an electrical enclosure with a cord, presuming the cord is allowed to enter doesn't it at least need proper fitting to enter and not just a "sleeve"? Otherwise you need a receptacle or inlet don't you - then the GFCI requirement that is trying to be avoided kicks in.
 
kwired said:
I know they do, and that is permitted by one or all of 400.7(A)(3),(6),(7),(8),(9), or (10).

But one can argue nearly every condition in 400.8 of uses not permitted is at least encroached upon in some way.

This gets complicated by the fact you put the receptacle in a box that otherwise has an electrical rating, though it sounds like what is inside of it probably could just as easily have been custom made out of "building materials" and accomplished about the same thing, which is to create a dry space for general use and not so much an electrical enclosure. If you entered an electrical enclosure with a cord, presuming the cord is allowed to enter doesn't it at least need proper fitting to enter and not just a "sleeve"? Otherwise you need a receptacle or inlet don't you - then the GFCI requirement that is trying to be avoided kicks in.
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See post #4, I casually addressed this "sleeve" issue and fittings/transition point.

I did not go further on this because I am not there and cannot know all the details.

OP asked about GFCI recs and the interior on a rated/listed enclosure, that is what I focused on.
 
jumper said:
See post #4, I casually addressed this "sleeve" issue and fittings/transition point.

I did not go further on this because I am not there and cannot know all the details.

OP asked about GFCI recs and the interior on a rated/listed enclosure, that is what I focused on.
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Rated/listed enclosure used as a general use locker, cabinet, etc. isn't exactly being used as an electrical enclosure. They better have wiring methods within such enclosure supplying said receptacles that are generally acceptable for indoor locations and not just open conductors emerging from a raceway or cable entering said enclosure.

If they do have just open conductors within the enclosure then it does need to be rated/listed, which includes closing all openings with something that is listed or comparable to the enclosure wall, and need to use proper fittings for entering wiring methods. A sleeve large enough to pass the cord cap through just don't meet such requirements.

If it is not used as an electrical enclosure then it sort of becomes part of the building and not a part of the electrical system. Now you are passing the cord through a floor, wall or other building partition.

Exactly how you wish to observe certain details changes what code section(s) is violated.
 
ActionDave said:
Nobody is going to convince me that a receptacle installed outside is not outside just because it is in a plastic box.
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My network/communications setups I earlier mentioned were usually in a metal box, that change anything for you?;)

Most of them were repeaters, relays, etc. necessary to get a wireless signal to a specific area, put a 24x24 box at bottom of a pole, on a tall grain silo or elevator and put a 120 volt receptacle inside. Communications guys mount an antenna(s) at top of structure and run antenna cabling into the box and place otherwise indoor rated equipment inside the box. Receptacle was not intended to serve any loads outside the box.
 
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