GFCI receptacle or not?

[curious101]

Hi,
In the case of gas station convenience store sales area (not a kitchen type of area)where there is a sink and beverage/other food dispensers/warmer equipment:
1. I assume beverage dispenser receptacles (and other food dispenser/warmer equipment/general purpose receptacles) which are beyond 6 feet of the edge of the sink and some of them are inside the cabinets too, do not need to be GFCI type. Correct? NEC2014, 210.8(B)(5)
2. The gas station convenience store sales area doesn't qualify as indoor wet location, right? So NEC2014, 210.8(B)(6) doesn't apply, correct?

Please let me know your input. Thanks!

 

[rnatalie]

I have the strangest feeling of deja vu. Didn't we do this already?

Being inside cabinets doesn't change anything. If it were just a drink machine, I'd say that 210.8(B) doesn't apply. However, you say "warmer equipment." If you're talking about things like microwaves, hotdogs-on-the-perpetual roller, or perhaps even a hot (nacho) cheese dispenser or the like, you may very well elevate this to a kitchen/food prep area under (B)(2). Of course, it's your AHJ who has the final say on the determination.

 

[curious101]

I have the strangest feeling of deja vu. Didn't we do this already?

Being inside cabinets doesn't change anything. If it were just a drink machine, I'd say that 210.8(B) doesn't apply. However, you say "warmer equipment." If you're talking about things like microwaves, hotdogs-on-the-perpetual roller, or perhaps even a hot (nacho) cheese dispenser or the like, you may very well elevate this to a kitchen/food prep area under (B)(2). Of course, it's your AHJ who has the final say on the determination.

Thanks for your response! Yes, it's a little finicky... The explanation in 210.8(B)(2) refers to kitchen as: "The definition of kitchen in Article 100 is an area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking". A portable cooking appliance (e.g. cord-and-plug-connected microwave oven or hot plate) is not a permanent cooking facility. Kitchens in restaurants, hotels, schools, churches, dining halls, and similar facilities are examples of the types of kitchens covered by this requirement." The gas station convenience store sales area doesn't seem to be the type of facility that they mention, but probably most AHJ's would classify it that way. So it's safer to design it with GFCI; even for the drink machines, although we're having problems exactly with some drink machines which don't work well with GFCI....

 

[rnatalie]

I'm not sure I guy that just because it has a cord and plug that it is not permanent. I suspect you're at the mercy of the AHJ as to whether a fixture is temporary or not. Yes, a countertop microwave probably isn't, but larger cooking devices might be.

 

[curious101]

I'm not sure I guy that just because it has a cord and plug that it is not permanent. I suspect you're at the mercy of the AHJ as to whether a fixture is temporary or not. Yes, a countertop microwave probably isn't, but larger cooking devices might be.

Thank you! Basically, all these appliances, like cheese warmer, hot dog roller, etc. are cord and plug...

 

[curious101]

I'm not sure I guy that just because it has a cord and plug that it is not permanent. I suspect you're at the mercy of the AHJ as to whether a fixture is temporary or not. Yes, a countertop microwave probably isn't, but larger cooking devices might be.

Thank you! Basically, all these appliances, like cheese warmer, hot dog roller, etc. are cord and plug... Does it mean that none of the appliances with cord and plug should technically be required to be GFCI because they are not permanent cooking facilities?

 

[Fred B]

I believe the item being plugged in is not so much issue but location and access to public. Recently did a convenience store that had seating, food/drink dispensing, as well as a small kitchen area. AHJ required any receptacle that had public access be TR siting safety concern (children) and any food preparation/dispencing equipment that was 15/20 amp SP plug in or hard wired be on a GFCI, either built in to equipment or on receptacle or branch circuit. What made it difficult was owner kept changing his mind on where he wanted things. That was just this AHJ, as already mentioned your AHJ may have a different thought/interpretation. I've seen many times two AHJ's quote the same code reference with one saying it applies to do "this", the other saying no it means "this".

 

[curious101]

I believe the item being plugged in is not so much issue but location and access to public. Recently did a convenience store that had seating, food/drink dispensing, as well as a small kitchen area. AHJ required any receptacle that had public access be TR siting safety concern (children) and any food preparation/dispencing equipment that was 15/20 amp SP plug in or hard wired be on a GFCI, either built in to equipment or on receptacle or branch circuit. What made it difficult was owner kept changing his mind on where he wanted things. That was just this AHJ, as already mentioned your AHJ may have a different thought/interpretation. I've seen many times two AHJ's quote the same code reference with one saying it applies to do "this", the other saying no it means "this".

Thank you so much!