GFCI Receptacle tapped from well pump

[atitus]

I am new at this and never posted in a forum before.. hope I don't get kicked out...

Not sure if this belongs here or somewhere else, OR if this was even answered in another thread... I used to work for an electrician who is now retired, shout out to Mr. Rosen.. he taught me all I know related to the industry.. anyways he refered me to this forum.. anyways..

I live in Tallahassee and have a rainsoft water softener system that was just installed by a particular company.. they installed it over by the well about a good 30-50 feet away from the house... When I asked him questions about how he was going to get power for the system there, he said we do this all the time and that he was going to take it from the 240volt well pump and wire in a 120volt GFCI... I asked if it was code to use the ground coming from the panel as the neutral AND ground at the newly installed GFCI and he said yes, it is code.. I felt unsettled about this and started to ask questions.. could someone clear up the air for me?

Thank you ALL in advance for taking the time to read this

Hope the picture came through

 

[tom baker]

Are you a healthcare electrician?

 

[roger]

Since the OP is not asking "how to do it" we are allowing this thread for the time being. Atitus you need to get a licensed electrician for this. I assume the water softener company is installing it and they obviously have no clue and probably need to reported to the code authority.

 

[Little Bill]

Also has a severe kink in the Carflex/Liquid Tight.
I agree with Roger, you need a licensed electrician.

 

[Dzboyce]

You have either a 1 hp pump with a 25 amp 2 pole breaker for the existing pump Branch circuit, or a 1 1/2 hp pump on a 30 amp 2 pole breaker for the Branch circuit. Since this was originally a 240 volt only Branch circuit, no neutral wire was needed. Inside the junction box, there will be two current carrying conductors, plus the equipment grounding conductor. For any 120 volt load, an additional neutral wire is required.

So you now have a 120 volt outlet with no neutral wire that is being fed with either a 25 amp or 30 amp circuit breaker.

I don't know about the licensing requirements for water treatment equipment installers in Florida. In my state, water treatment installers may only install plug and cord powered equipment. The electrical outlet must be provided and installed by a properly licensed person.

To be a compliant installation in my state, an additional neutral wire would need to be installed back to the main panel. Then one of two options. An addition current carrying conductor be installed along with the neutral wire from a separate breaker in the main panel, to the 120 volt outlet. The existing grounding conductor could be used for both circuits. The other option is to convert the existing pump Branch circuit into a feeder. Pull the additional neutral wire. Install a sub panel. Install breakers in the sub panel for the pump and the 120 volt outlet. Install the ground rods required for a sub panel. All this work woukd need to be fine by a properly licensed person.

Also, it does not appear that the steel well casing is bonded to the equipment grounding conductor. This is a requirement of the NEC code, regardless of the 120 volt outlet in question.

 

[atitus]

Are you a healthcare electrician?

I worked for an electrician for over 10 years and when he retired, I decided to go full time into healthcare

 

[atitus]

Since the OP is not asking "how to do it" we are allowing this thread for the time being. Atitus you need to get a licensed electrician for this. I assume the water softener company is installing it and they obviously have no clue and probably need to reported to the code authority.

I did inquire about them doing it this way and he kept insisting that they install it like this on all well systems and since it is not the proper way of doing it, I definitely need to get it resolved, this is what I am paying for and I am definitely not going to keep quiet about this

Thank you for your input

 

[atitus]

You have either a 1 hp pump with a 25 amp 2 pole breaker for the existing pump Branch circuit, or a 1 1/2 hp pump on a 30 amp 2 pole breaker for the Branch circuit. Since this was originally a 240 volt only Branch circuit, no neutral wire was needed. Inside the junction box, there will be two current carrying conductors, plus the equipment grounding conductor. For any 120 volt load, an additional neutral wire is required.

So you now have a 120 volt outlet with no neutral wire that is being fed with either a 25 amp or 30 amp circuit breaker.

I don't know about the licensing requirements for water treatment equipment installers in Florida. In my state, water treatment installers may only install plug and cord powered equipment. The electrical outlet must be provided and installed by a properly licensed person.

To be a compliant installation in my state, an additional neutral wire would need to be installed back to the main panel. Then one of two options. An addition current carrying conductor be installed along with the neutral wire from a separate breaker in the main panel, to the 120 volt outlet. The existing grounding conductor could be used for both circuits. The other option is to convert the existing pump Branch circuit into a feeder. Pull the additional neutral wire. Install a sub panel. Install breakers in the sub panel for the pump and the 120 volt outlet. Install the ground rods required for a sub panel. All this work woukd need to be fine by a properly licensed person.

Also, it does not appear that the steel well casing is bonded to the equipment grounding conductor. This is a requirement of the NEC code, regardless of the 120 volt outlet in question.

I did ask the guy who did the installation. The current white and black wire are coming from a2 pole 20 amp circuit breaker. He attached the GFI to one of the legs of that line coming in and used the ground wire coming from the panel and attached it to the ground AND neutral going into the GFI. I also noticed this configuration before he closed the 4" box and I would have to double check on the well casing.

Thank you for your indepth explanation and heads up on the well casing

 

[kwired]

I worked for an electrician for over 10 years and when he retired, I decided to go full time into healthcare

Easy transition, lots of similar tasks there

Probably even brought some your own tools from the previous job.

This is not a safe install because it puts current on the EGC, and potentially any metal object also connected to the EGC. Should a failure of that current path occur then there is potential rise in voltage and if totally open you can have the full 120 volts rise on those objects.

 

[Little Bill]

I think the OP has enough info to see that the installation is wrong and should be corrected by a qualified/licensed electrician.
Since this thread was just to give advise, and this has been done, I am closing it.

@atitus
I hope you get this resolved!