GFCI Receptacle Tripping

[patron]

I installed 3 fluorescent under cabinet lights in a kitchen powering each fixture from a different receptacle on the same gfci protected circuit. The customer reports that the gfci receptacle for this circuit will sometimes trip when she plugs in a fan or toaster or when she turns on or off any one of the lights. It does not happen every time. Does anyone have an idea what might be going on here. I have so far been unable to make this happen while I am there.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I installed 3 fluorescent under cabinet lights in a kitchen powering each fixture from a different receptacle on the same gfci protected circuit. The customer reports that the gfci receptacle for this circuit will sometimes trip when she plugs in a fan or toaster or when she turns on or off any one of the lights. It does not happen every time. Does anyone have an idea what might be going on here. I have so far been unable to make this happen while I am there.

This is a violation of 210.52(B)(2).

 

[charlie b]

This is a violation of 210.52(B)(2).

No it is not. (Here we go again!) :roll:

 

[jxofaltrds]

No it is not. (Here we go again!) :roll:

OK help me out.

 

[charlie b]

The subject has been debated at some length on this forum (not recently, perhaps 2-3 years ago). The argument on one side is that plugging something into a receptacle (which is an "outlet, by the NEC definition of that word) does not cause that something to itself become an outlet. For example, set a clock radio on a bedside table, and plug it in, and the radio does not suddenly become an outlet. It was, and continues to be, "utilization equipment." I agree with this point of view.

I think that the other point of view is that, once you attach an undercabinet light to the underside of a cabinet, you now cause it to become a permanent part of the building. That makes it a "lighting outlet," and creates the violation to which you refer.

 

[jxofaltrds]

The subject has been debated at some length on this forum (not recently, perhaps 2-3 years ago). The argument on one side is that plugging something into a receptacle (which is an "outlet, by the NEC definition of that word) does not cause that something to itself become an outlet. For example, set a clock radio on a bedside table, and plug it in, and the radio does not suddenly become an outlet. It was, and continues to be, "utilization equipment." I agree with this point of view.

I think that the other point of view is that, once you attach an undercabinet light to the underside of a cabinet, you now cause it to become a permanent part of the building. That makes it a "lighting outlet," and creates the violation to which you refer.

I agree with you.

I read the post as if he was feeding from not plugging into.

 

[charlie b]

Back to the original question: Number one question I would have: When did this symptom begin? Specifically, was it a problem before you added the lights? My guess is that it was, for I can't conceive of anything involved in adding the lights that would bring about that symptom. In particular, if a toaster can cause the symptom, then the lights did not create the symptom. That puts you into a new troubleshooting project, rather than a warrantee repair of something you might have done.

 

[charlie b]

Did I misunderstand the situation:

. . . powering each fixture from a different receptacle on the same gfci protected circuit.

Did you tie into the circuit inside the receptacle's outlet box, or did you simply plug the lights into an existing receptacle? Mike might be right about this being a code violation.

 

[patron]

I did tie in the lights in the outlet box which I now see is a code violation. According to the customer the problem began after the lights were installed. The kitchen recently received new counter tops and tile back splash over existing sheetrock.

 

[charlie b]

My guess is that there is a wire, or that there are a few loose strands of wire, that is/are close to contacting the side of the outlet box. If you wind up finding another power source, the problem should go away.

 

[LarryFine]

I did tie in the lights in the outlet box which I now see is a code violation. According to the customer the problem began after the lights were installed. The kitchen recently received new counter tops and tile back splash over existing sheetrock.

In that case, there is no real excuse for the lights to have been separately wired, in my opinion.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Did I misunderstand the situationid you tie into the circuit inside the receptacle's outlet box, or did you simply plug the lights into an existing receptacle? Mike might be right about this being a code violation.

I did get a "might" out of you. That's a start!

 

[charlie b]

I did get a "might" out of you. That's a start!

And now I will convert that to a "Bravo!" :grin: You had it right, and I was the one who misunderstood the question.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I did tie in the lights in the outlet box which I now see is a code violation. According to the customer the problem began after the lights were installed. The kitchen recently received new counter tops and tile back splash over existing sheetrock.

Is it possible that new drywall was installed? There could be a 'nic' in one of the wires.

 

[jxofaltrds]

And now I will convert that to a "Bravo!" :grin: You had it right, and I was the one who misunderstood the question.

Thank you for that.

 

[patron]

I am told there was not new drywall installed. I was called to do this job after the kitchen countertop and tile was completed. (afterthought) There was no way to wire the lights together from a different source without damaging the new backsplash and freshly painted walls.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I am told there was not new drywall installed. I was called to do this job after the kitchen countertop and tile was completed. (afterthought) There was no way to wire the lights together from a different source without damaging the new backsplash and freshly painted walls.

Are you luckly enought to have a range hood 'only' near by? It may fun fishing wire to it but you would be code compliant.

Now back to your question. Leave the lights connected. Disconnect the wires 'going' to the lights. See if you have continuity between the grounded conductor and egc. If so that is your problem.

Will you be code compliant the way you have wired it? No. Is it the end of the world? No. Understand?

 

[LarryFine]

I was called to do this job after the kitchen countertop and tile was completed. (afterthought)

Ah. That's the problem.

There was no way to wire the lights together from a different source without damaging the new backsplash and freshly painted walls.

Not necessarily. Do the cabinets have recessed bottoms? If so, the back skirt could be drilled through.

 

[goldstar]

Aside from any code violation that others have mentioned I once had a problem similar to this. A customer had (2) fluorescent 2-lamp light fixtures in her walk-in closet. As luck would have it the EC who installed these lights tapped off the load side of a bathroom GFI receptacle. I disconnected both lights and then re-connected each one separately. Each fixture (separately) would fire up and stay lit but once I connected both it would trip the GFI. The only thing I could figure was that there must have been some arcing inside the ballasts that when both were connected created an excess disfunction between the hot and neutral causing the GFI to trip. I ended up wiring them to the line side of the receptacle. You might want to try that (if you have individual GFI's).

 

[JWS]

It is my understanding that a fluorescent light wired to the load side of a GFCI is always a potential source for nuisance tripping.