GFCI receptacles -

[Isaiah]

Will a GFCI receptacle work if the circuit is from a ‘normal’ single pole CB at the Panelboard? In other words does the CB also have to be GFCI?


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[infinity]

The GFCI protection can be at the circuit breaker, the receptacle, or both.

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[Isaiah]

The GFCI protection can be at the circuit breaker, the receptacle, or both.

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So a GFCI receptacle will cause a typical off the shelf 20A 1P breaker to trip if it sees over 5mA? A shunt is not required to trip the CB?


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[infinity]

So a GFCI receptacle will cause a typical off the shelf 20A 1P breaker to trip if it sees over 5mA? A shunt is not required to trip the CB?

No a standard 20 amp circuit breaker will not trip with a 5ma imbalance because it has no way to sense that.

 

[ActionDave]

So a GFCI receptacle will cause a typical off the shelf 20A 1P breaker to trip if it sees over 5mA? A shunt is not required to trip the CB?


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No. The difference between a GFCI breaker and a GFCI recpt is the location of the ground fault sensing technology. If a 5mA fault trips a GFCI recpt the breaker that is feeding it will almost certainly stay on.

 

[Isaiah]

No. The difference between a GFCI breaker and a GFCI recpt is the location of the ground fault sensing technology. If a 5mA fault trips a GFCI recpt the breaker that is feeding it will almost certainly stay on.

Thanks Dave.
If the circuit has no EGC; say it’s ‘an older’ two wire system. Will the neutral see a 5mA fault and trip the GFCI receptacle?


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[garbo]

Will a GFCI receptacle work if the circuit is from a ‘normal’ single pole CB at the Panelboard? In other words does the CB also have to be GFCI?


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Yes but far cheaper to use a regular circuit breaker at panel and a GFCI receptacle where needed. Plus a whole lot easier to reset & perform monthly test at location. I perfer to mount GFCI indoors to feed outdoor recetacles. No matter what type of cover & silicone chaulk moisture finds a way in to ruin GFCI receptacle. I installed 2 indoor GFCI receptacles for outdoor receptacles mounted in a pent just for Christmas lights 35 years ago. 2 original indoor GFCI receptacles still working.

 

[ActionDave]

Thanks Dave.
If the circuit has no EGC; say it’s ‘an older’ two wire system. Will the neutral see a 5mA fault and trip the GFCI receptacle?


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The neutral is just a conductor in the circuit, there is nothing magical about it.

The electronic circuitry inside the GFCI provides the protection. Current leaves the source, powers the toaster, light bulb, or whatever and returns to the source. We like that current path to be on the insulated conductors that we have installed to power that circuit. Current that gets outside of those insulated conductors is a ground fault. A ground fault of at least 5mA will trigger a GFCI and cause it to open the circuit. It makes no difference which conductor the fault is on and an EGC is not required for the GFCI to operate correctly.

 

[Isaiah]

The neutral is just a conductor in the circuit, there is nothing magical about it.

The electronic circuitry inside the GFCI provides the protection. Current leaves the source, powers the toaster, light bulb, or whatever and returns to the source. We like that current path to be on the insulated conductors that we have installed to power that circuit. Current that gets outside of those insulated conductors is a ground fault. A ground fault of at least 5mA will trigger a GFCI and cause it to open the circuit. It makes no difference which conductor the fault is on and an EGC is not required for the GFCI to operate correctly.

So the bottom line is within the GFCI receptacle itself there’s a mechanism to open the circuit-and it doesn’t require the EGC to function.
The associated CB on the same circuit remains closed, so the circuit remains energized but the electronic device within the receptacle keeps the circuit open until its manually reset?


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[ActionDave]

So the bottom line is within the GFCI receptacle itself there’s a mechanism to open the circuit-and it doesn’t require the EGC to function.

Correct

The associated CB on the same circuit remains closed, so the circuit remains energized

Correct

but the electronic device within the receptacle keeps the circuit open until its manually reset?

At the face of recpt, yes.

 

[LarryFine]

Note that either GFCI device, breaker or receptacle, could trip first, or even both could.

I once had to do a troubleshoot for a dead bedroom that ended up having three GFCI receptacles in the one circuit (one in the living room, one in the hall, one in the bedroom), all wired feed-through, and all tripped.

Never figured out why they were wired like that. They had to be reset in the correct sequence.

 

[Buck Parrish]

But if you plug a Woodhead tester into the old two wire system. It will not test as it uses the grounding wire to test.
The only method for testing the two wire is to press the button.