GFCI required in residential shop/garage/ outbuilding

[Strombea]

I have wired many shops and out buildings, many customers us receptacles for freezers for meat, power tools, etc. Most customers get pissed when they learn the receps have to be GFcI. Some AHJs say freezer/ welder/table saw plug is OK as long as its is a singleplex with no other things plugged in. My question is simple 'where in the NEC does it describe a residential out building or even an attached garage GFCI requirements?' Please don't respond with anything commercial or mike holts 2010 letter as it is commercial industrial related. I personally think a 120v plasma cutter/ welder etc. plug would be silly to be GFCI protected but AHJ is making me do GFCI. Where is the fine line? 120v car lift in a residential garage GFI?

 

[ptonsparky]

I have wired many shops and out buildings, many customers us receptacles for freezers for meat, power tools, etc. Most customers get pissed when they learn the receps have to be GFcI. Some AHJs say freezer/ welder/table saw plug is OK as long as its is a singleplex with no other things plugged in. My question is simple 'where in the NEC does it describe a residential out building or even an attached garage GFCI requirements?' Please don't respond with anything commercial or mike holts 2010 letter as it is commercial industrial related. I personally think a 120v plasma cutter/ welder etc. plug would be silly to be GFCI protected but AHJ is making me do GFCI. Where is the fine line? 120v car lift in a residential garage GFI?

What code cycle are you under? Now, use the index and look for GFCI, or any other form for that term.

Do a search on this forum. We just got done with one not to long ago.

IMO, put the dang thing in and be done with it. Quit your belly aching. Most of the time they are doing what they are supposed to.

 

[al hildenbrand]

'where in the NEC does it describe a residential out building or even an attached garage GFCI requirements?'

If you are thinking about Prescott, it looks like you are under the 2017 NEC. Look at 210.8.

The residential exceptions for a single appliance plugged into a simplex receptacle were removed from the NEC several cycles ago.

 

[Strombea]

What code cycle are you under? Now, use the index and look for GFCI, or any other form for that term.

Do a search on this forum. We just got done with one not to long ago.

IMO, put the dang thing in and be done with it. Quit your belly aching. Most of the time they are doing what they are supposed to.

There is here is no belly aching. There is no logical reason for a dedicated freezer or a plasma cutter to be protected. The code that everyone refers to in 210.8 (2)
'Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms'


'Grade level' most all new construction shops and out buildings are above grade so this does not apply. This is very silly from an electrical point of view. Anybody that has studied arc faults and GFCI or knows anything about electrical knows that it is measuring the current and that a discrepancy to ground causes it to trip thus in a workshop where someone might be running a small fabrication business from their home or something like that would have no reason or need to have GFI protected receptacles where there is no wet location or common fault currents to ground.

 

[480sparky]

GFCI protection is for receptacles, not what you plug into them.

 

[al hildenbrand]

This is very silly from an electrical point of view.

Sounds like you should send the NFPA a Proposal for the Code you want.

 

[hbiss]

There is here is no belly aching. There is no logical reason for a dedicated freezer or a plasma cutter to be protected. The code that everyone refers to in 210.8 (2)
'Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms'


'Grade level' most all new construction shops and out buildings are above grade so this does not apply. This is very silly from an electrical point of view. Anybody that has studied arc faults and GFCI or knows anything about electrical knows that it is measuring the current and that a discrepancy to ground causes it to trip thus in a workshop where someone might be running a small fabrication business from their home or something like that would have no reason or need to have GFI protected receptacles where there is no wet location or common fault currents to ground.

Nearly all such buildings have concrete floors, whether on grade or poured on compacted fill above grade. Concrete is an excellent conductor to ground.

Also, from the handbook:

The requirement for GFCI receptacles in garages and sheds, as illustrated in Exhibit 210.10, improves safety for persons using portable handheld tools, gardening appliances, lawn mowers, string trimmers, snow blowers, and so on, that might be connected to these receptacles, which are often the closest ones available. GFCI protection is also required in garage areas where auto repair work and general workshop electrical tools are used.There are no exceptions to the ground-fault circuit- interrupter requirements in 210.8(A)(2), and this ensures that all 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in garages provide GFCI protection for the user of appliances or other equipment regardless of where the receptacle is located in the garage. Appliance leakage currents permitted by today’s product standards are far less than the operational threshold of a GFCI.

-Hal

 

[Strombea]

Can anyone give logical examples of why it would be necessary. Also a code reference of a residential shop? No helpful answers, I just wanted help on where the NEC is saying a residential shop needs it. Why would this be any different from a small cabinet shop with CNC machines and table saws. No commercial shop has dedicated gfci circuits for heavy machines. I guess a little in sight on the reasoning behind it. What about out buildings above grade? People just remove them after inspection in shop settings and I can't explain to them why the code requires the table saw to be plugged into a gfci.

 

[Strombea]

Nearly all such buildings have concrete floors, whether on grade or poured on compacted fill above grade. Concrete is an excellent conductor to ground.

Also, from the handbook:



-Hal

sorry Hal,

your answer was very helpful, thank you. Maybe they just don't want people running commercial type shops from home.


Thank you!!

 

[480sparky]

Can anyone give logical examples of why it would be necessary. Also a code reference of a residential shop? No helpful answers, I just wanted help on where the NEC is saying a residential shop needs it. Why would this be any different from a small cabinet shop with CNC machines and table saws. No commercial shop has dedicated gfci circuits for heavy machines. I guess a little in sight on the reasoning behind it. What about out buildings above grade? People just remove them after inspection in shop settings and I can't explain to them why the code requires the table saw to be plugged into a gfci.

Many commercial machines are 208v and up. And hard-wired. Far fewer GFCI requirements.

 

[480sparky]

........... Also a code reference of a residential shop? No helpful answers, I just wanted help on where the NEC is saying a residential shop needs it. .......

The term 'residential shop' does not appear in the NEC. But your answer will be in 210.8(A).

 

[LarryFine]

GFCI protection is for receptacles, not what you plug into them.

Well, to be more accurate, GFCI protection is for people.

 

[growler]

in a workshop where someone might be running a small fabrication business from their home or something like that would have no reason or need to have GFI protected receptacles where there is no wet location or common fault currents to ground.

This is kind of tricky. In an area zoned for residential I doubt that anyone could legally run a small fabrication business.

If the property is zoned for residential and lite commercial then it possible to get a permit to build a commercial shop and follow commercial rules. Then they get to pay commercial taxes and insurance rates.

The key word in all of this is "residential". Residential rules cover a building used for habitation and not as a commercial type shop.

 

[infinity]

As mentioned several times already the GFCI protection is for the protection of people who may plug something into the receptacle like a portable hand tool, it is not for protection of the table saw or other stationary tool. If the tool is operating properly there is no reason why it won't work on a GFCI protected circuit.

 

[RD35]

I'll jump in here on this subject to ask a related question. Having been away from the trade for about 11+ years, am I to understand that we now have to install hot-tub style GFCI breakers for welders and any other cord connected 240V shop tools up to 50 amps? And do I also read this correctly that now we are required to plug refrigerators and freezers into GFCI protected outlets?
Thanks

 

[ptonsparky]

I'll jump in here on this subject to ask a related question. Having been away from the trade for about 11+ years, am I to understand that we now have to install hot-tub style GFCI breakers for welders and any other cord connected 240V shop tools up to 50 amps? And do I also read this correctly that now we are required to plug refrigerators and freezers into GFCI protected outlets?
Thanks

Does the area require GFCI protection for receptacles? We don’t care what you plug into those devices, so Yes.

 

[RD35]

Okay thanks! I didn't realize this had happened.

 

[RD35]

Looks like my freezer and refrigerator will be getting GFCI outlets with audible alarms. Wonder if they have GFCI outlets with WIFI alert?

 

[480sparky]

Well, to be more accurate, GFCI protection is for people.

I was referring to where the protection is required, not why.

 

[ptonsparky]

Looks like my freezer and refrigerator will be getting GFCI outlets with audible alarms. Wonder if they have GFCI outlets with WIFI alert?

I installed the first, for me, audible alert device last week in my nephews "residential shop" when I updated the sub panel in that area. It was loud enough for them to hear it 50' or more away. The garage/storage/food prep area portion has had GFCI devices for several years. Even the water heater he plugs in works just fine.