GFCI Stickers

[marinesgt0411]

I have an engineers report that states that I have to put GFCI stickers on all load side recepticals of the GFCI's Is this a code requirement, manufacturer's requirement or just a I'm the engineer and I want it that way requirement? for the time it would take me to check 300 recepticals in 60 units it would have to be a code or manufacturer's requirement or engineer gets the bill. By the way the stickers were put on at time of installasion but were removed by homeowners,painters,decorators and even some of the plates and recepticals were replaced to get rid of them. installation instructions just state to put the stickers on at time of testing. to me that says that the stigkers are recomended but not required.

 

[wbalsam1]

Is placing the sticker on the receptacle a part of the manufacturer's requirements? Or the listing/labeling? If so, it's probably a part of the project specs.:smile:

 

[infinity]

The stickers are not required by the NEC unless the downstream receptacles are fed without an EGC. This wouldn't apply to a new installation. No one likes them. It's your choice as to whether or not you install them. Personally I throw them away.


But if the engineer required them as part of a contract specification then I guess that you'll be installing them. This is not a code issue but a design choice.

 

[360Youth]

Personally I throw them away. QUOTE]

Same here. Only once have I had an inspector make me go back and put them on. I had already tossed the stickers so I had to use my labeler. It was a LOT of labels by the time I was done with kit, bath, wet bars, 2 garages, and 3 decks worth of w/p recept.

 

[infinity]

Personally I throw them away. QUOTE]

Same here. Only once have I had an inspector make me go back and put them on. I had already tossed the stickers so I had to use my labeler. It was a LOT of labels by the time I was done with kit, bath, wet bars, 2 garages, and 3 decks worth of w/p recept.

You're a better man than me. I wouldn't put them on until the inspector can show me where in the code book that it says that they're required. Since the NEC makes no such mention, the stickers stay in the garbage.

 

[360Youth]

You're a better man than me. I wouldn't put them on until the inspector can show me where in the code book that it says that they're required. Since the NEC makes no such mention, the stickers stay in the garbage.

Gotta pick your battles sometimes.

 

[infinity]

Gotta pick your battles sometimes.

True, but why let the guy off the hook when he's wrong? He'll just continue to make the same mistake over and over again.

 

[360Youth]

True, but why let the guy off the hook when he's wrong? He'll just continue to make the same mistake over and over again.

Maybe next time. As a matter of fact, I did a remodel (whole house) about a year later and did not have the same issue. Never thought about it until now. Maybe he learned, maybe it was a new guy. I don't think I ever saw the inspector on either job. Sometimes that makes the whole ordeal worthwhile :grin: . (Just kidding guys )

 

[Dave_PE]

Anyone check the requirements of UL 943?

 

[infinity]

Anyone check the requirements of UL 943?

Can you post them?

 

[bphgravity]

One could probably cite manufacturer's instructions for this, 110.3(B)

 

[infinity]

One could probably cite manufacturer's instructions for this, 110.3(B)

Bryan,

Do you know of a manufacturer that requires the use of the stickers as part of the listing of the GFCI receptacle?

 

[marinesgt0411]

One could probably cite manufacturer's instructions for this, 110.3(B)

The instructions just say to use the stickers to identify the recepts to be tested at time of testing.

If the stickers are that important then why are they so dificult to obtain? you only get 4 with the GFCI.

 

[kkwong]

I've always put the sstickers on, even though it is a pain in the butt. One thing you might want to check is the local AHJ (dunno if the engineer is the same for you). Some areas in CA require you to lable all load side recep's and some don't.

 

[infinity]

I've always put the sstickers on, even though it is a pain in the butt. One thing you might want to check is the local AHJ (dunno if the engineer is the same for you). Some areas in CA require you to lable all load side recep's and some don't.

Does CA have local amendments to the NEC or do they have their own code?

 

[bphgravity]

Bryan,

Do you know of a manufacturer that requires the use of the stickers as part of the listing of the GFCI receptacle?

Not exactly, but even UL will tell you that the instructions provided by the manufacturer must be complied with. In some cases, the design professional specifies installation per the manufacturer?s instructions. And it may be a requirement of the administrative section of the building code that all products and materials be installed per manufacturer's instructions.

There are lots of avenues for inspectors to cite a violation without directly referencing the NEC.

Mark Ode himself has told me that in some instances, manufacturer's instructions ARE a component of a product's listing instructions. For example, many of the instructions on panelboard labels are not listing instructions; however compliance with those instructions is required to maintain the panelboard listing.

 

[jim dungar]

There are lots of avenues for inspectors to cite a violation without directly referencing the NEC.

Can you cite a violation on a "gut feel" only and then make the contractor prove the application is correct, or do you have to know it really is violation. Is citing 110.3(b) a case of guilty until proven innocent?

 

[bphgravity]

I have not, do not, and will never cite violations on a "gut-feel"...

Here is a post I made on another Forum when a question like this was asked:

I only cite code sections on my inspection reports. I do not cite my opinion, suggestions, or anything else.

I may and have requested manufacturer's instructions and other documentation when it was necessary to determine compliance and suitability of the installaion, but I can't imagine nor would ever consider demanding a contractor to prove to me code compliance.

My job is to one, check for code compliance, two, check for compliance with the approved plans, and three, check for compliance with the material and/or equipment listing and labeling instructions.

When I am not sure if an installation is code compliant, I consult my collegues and co-workers. Never would I assume an installation is in violaion and place the responsibility of proving compliance in the hands of the contractor.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Bryan,

Not exactly, but even UL will tell you that the instructions provided by the manufacturer must be complied with.

It is my opinon that as long as UL has "classified" breakers they can't say that. All panels say that you can only use OEM breakers, but UL says you can ignor that instruction and use "classified" breakers. UL can't have it both ways.
Don

 

[bphgravity]

Here is a post I made back in November. And I agree with Don!

Every listed product is investigated using a UL standard. This standard identifies all tests performed and the requirements the product must meet in order to obtain its listing as suitable for its use. This is standard also identifies how the product must be installed in order to comply with the listing. This would be the listing instruction. UL also identifies marking and labeling requirements for listed products.

These requirements are generally outlined by the UL general directory, which also indicates installation instructions in some cases.

In the end, manufacturer's instructions and products must include everything as required by its listing and labeling BUT may contain information or suggestions that maybe included for the purposes of maintaining warranties or guarantees, or possibly to protect special design considerations based on the products usability.

Now be aware that UL constantly contradicts itself on this matter frequently. Take for example the classified breaker issue. UL will tell you that a panelboard's installation instructions and label are to be followed per 110.3(B), however will also say that a product classified for use in that panelboard amends the listing and labeling instructions even though it may be in conflict with the manufacturer's instructions.