GFCI

[vergeront]

Is there a need for a GFCI on dwelling unit Garbage disposal? NEC 2023 210.8
I see the changes on the AC unit for dwelling unit no changes til 2026

 

[letgomywago]

Is it withing 6 ft of a sink including passing through a door?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Is it hardwired or cord and plug connected?

 

[vergeront]

Is it withing 6 ft of a sink including passing through a door?

the garbage disposal is under the sink with cord attachment to plug into single receptacle

 

[vergeront]

Is it hardwired or cord and plug connected?

cord and plug conected to single receptacle

 

[don_resqcapt19]

cord and plug conected to single receptacle

So now you have to use a string to measure from the receptacle to the sink. If that string is 6' or less, the receptacle needs GFCI protection.

 

[HEYDOG]

So now you have to use a string to measure from the receptacle to the sink. If that string is 6' or less, the receptacle needs GFCI protection.

And A.F.C.I. Protection!

 

[qcroanoke]

Just out of curiosity, is this new work or has it been there awhile?

 

[kwired]

Need to ask which code cycle applies as well as how your jurisdiction interpreted what that edition may have said?

At times it wasn't so clear if inside a cabinet applied to the six foot distance, and I honestly need to look the last two or three editions over again as I don't know whether this is truly clarified or not in actual print. I seem to recall at one point a typical disposer receptacle though behind a cabinet door is required to be GFCI protected, yet a bedroom receptacle that is also within 6 feet of the bath sink or tub even though you would have to pass a cord through the bathroom door does not need GFCI?

 

[jap]

So now you have to use a string to measure from the receptacle to the sink. If that string is 6' or less, the receptacle needs GFCI protection.

Or use a 6' string to begin with.

Jap>

 

[letgomywago]

Need to ask which code cycle applies as well as how your jurisdiction interpreted what that edition may have said?

At times it wasn't so clear if inside a cabinet applied to the six foot distance, and I honestly need to look the last two or three editions over again as I don't know whether this is truly clarified or not in actual print. I seem to recall at one point a typical disposer receptacle though behind a cabinet door is required to be GFCI protected, yet a bedroom receptacle that is also within 6 feet of the bath sink or tub even though you would have to pass a cord through the bathroom door does not need GFCI?

Honestly that's how it should be but that's not how it's written in the 2020

 

[kwired]

Honestly that's how it should be but that's not how it's written in the 2020

snipped from 2020 NEC:


IMO that means a receptacle in a cabinet under the sink would not require GFCI protection, at least not from 210.8(A) unless the sink cabinet had no doors. If it supplied a dishwasher - the requirement in 422(5)(A)(7) still doesn't require GFCI protection at the receptacle it just requires the dishwasher to be protected, in line GFCI in the cord could meet this requirement. Whether or not that complies with readily accessible requirements is a little different issue, but it does provide the required protection.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

snipped from 2020 NEC:

View attachment 2564500
IMO that means a receptacle in a cabinet under the sink would not require GFCI protection, at least not from 210.8(A) unless the sink cabinet had no doors. If it supplied a dishwasher - the requirement in 422(5)(A)(7) still doesn't require GFCI protection at the receptacle it just requires the dishwasher to be protected, in line GFCI in the cord could meet this requirement. Whether or not that complies with readily accessible requirements is a little different issue, but it does provide the required protection.

the 2017 code said;

For the purposes of this section, when determining distance from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest path the cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed barrier, or passing through a door, doorway, or window.

The 2020 code took out the language in bold above to specifically require a receptacle under a sink to have GFCI protection, with or without cabinet doors. The 2017 language did not require the receptacles in the cabinet under the sink to have GFCI protection, but the 2020 does.

 

[kwired]

the 2017 code said;

The 2020 code took out the language in bold above to specifically require a receptacle under a sink to have GFCI protection, with or without cabinet doors. The 2017 language did not require the receptacles in the cabinet under the sink to have GFCI protection, but the 2020 does.

As worded a bedroom, hallway, or other receptacle would require GFCI if it is close enough to a sink within the bathroom.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

As worded a bedroom, hallway, or other receptacle would require GFCI if it is close enough to a sink within the bathroom.

That is exactly what the 2020 language requires. The Public Comment shown below would have restored the words "door, doorway, or" to this section. The CMP rejected the comment.

Public Comment No. 1640-NFPA 70-2018 [ Section No. 210.8 [Excluding any Sub-Sections] ]

Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (F). The ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.

Informational Note No. 1: See 215.9 for ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel on feeders.

Informational Note No. 2: See 422.5(A) for GFCI requirements for appliances.

For the purposes of this section, when determining distance from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest path the supply cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed barrier, or the shortest path without passing through a door, doorway, or window.

Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Comment
The consequence of this change is that receptacles in adjacent rooms will need to have GFCI protection. Such receptacles may be on a separate circuit and only require protection for that one outlet. This adds cost and more chances for enforcement against installers for an unknown benefit. In addition, Article 400.12 already prohibits cords from being run through doorways.

Committee Action:	Rejected
Resolution:	GFCI protection is required for receptacles that are six feet or less from the potential hazard in 210.8(A) and (B), regardless of any intervening doors of any kind, or doorways of any kind.

 

[jap]

Yes GFI protection is required for receptacles that are 6' or less from a potential hazard,

But the rule seems to be hinged on the length of the appliance cord, or, "path" of the appliance cord will take, not the location of the outlet.

There may be times when the "path" of the cord is greater than the distance of the receptacle to the hazard.

JAP>

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Yes GFI protection is required for receptacles that are 6' or less from a potential hazard,

But the rule seems to be hinged on the length of the appliance cord, or, "path" of the appliance cord will take, not the location of the outlet.

There may be times when the "path" of the cord is greater than the distance of the receptacle to the hazard.

JAP>

Yes that is true. Look at the language in 210.8(B) for sinks in the 2023 code. I expect we will see than language in 210.8(A) in the 2026.

(7) Sinks where receptacles or cord-and-plug-connected fixed or stationary appliances are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink

 

[LarryFine]

I've always thought it was based on the average arm span.

 

[jap]

I've always thought it was based on the average arm span.

I'm much the same way.

If it's anywhere close to being within the required distance I'm putting it in anyway.

It's not worth the argument in my book.

JAP>

 

[kwired]

I've always thought it was based on the average arm span.

I've always thought it was based on many equipment cords being up to 6 feet in length.

If you happen to have something with a 10 foot cord you can plug it in further away and still have same hazard, but I guess they need to set some sort of distance.

That is exactly what the 2020 language requires. The Public Comment shown below would have restored the words "door, doorway, or" to this section. The CMP rejected the comment.

So one could take it as requiring GFCI protection within six feet of doors leading to outdoors, basements, garages or did they not really clarify they meant in cases where a distance is mentioned?

Committee Action:	Rejected
Resolution:	GFCI protection is required for receptacles that are six feet or less from the potential hazard in 210.8(A) and (B), regardless of any intervening doors of any kind, or doorways of any kind.