GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

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V

ver

Member
Question for jurisdictions enforcing 2002 NEC:
Regarding 210.8(B)(3), which requires GFI protection for 120v 15 and 20 amp receptacles in kitchens other than dwelling units - How is your jurisdiction enforcing this?
1. For ALL receptacles fitting the above description.
2. For all receptacles EXCEPT those feeding refrigeration.
3. Only for receptacles not dedicated to and behind an appliance (in other words, just for general use receptacles.
4. Some other variation.
Also, please let me know what jurisdiction you are talking about.
 
iwire

iwire

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Massachusetts
Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

I have not 'tested' how the local inspectors are enforcing it but I do know what is required by the NEC.

All 120 volt 15 and 20 amp receptacles in a non-dwelling kitchen shall be GFCI protected.

There are no exceptions for refrigeration or dedicated receptacles.

If I am running the job GFCIs will be installed regardless of what they feed.

As a side note the 2005 NEC also requires vending machines to be GFCI protected and many of them are also refrigerated. ;)
 
iwire

iwire

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Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

Here is the entire relevant text

2002 NEC

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.

(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1), (2), and (3) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:

(3) Kitchens
Click to expand...

[ August 30, 2005, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
augie47

augie47

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Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

#3 closely resembles the enforcement lined out by State of Tennessee Deputy Electrical Inspectors--Central Section
 
iwire

iwire

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Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

By the way, if I call them 120 volt receptacles can I forget about GFCI protection. ;)
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Lockport, IL
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Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

OK. "Sorta Dumb Question" time (I know there are no "dumb questions").

What's the real issue here?

I see the obvious part: If a fridge trips a GFCI when nobody is looking, you get spoiled food and irate restaurant owners. But are fridges really susceptible to frequent nuisance trips? Is there something about a fridge that makes it likely that it is going to trip a GFCI, even if the fridge is brand new and "working perfectly"?

What I mean is this: If a fridge does trip a GFCI, does that mean that it is in need of repair? If so, is it likely that an appliance repair technician can tighten something, replace something, or just bang on something, thereby resolving the cause of the GFCI trip, and preventing future nuisance trips?

Code compliance aside, Ryan, what do you tell the owner (or the installer), when you enforce the GFCI issue? Do you leave it at, "article XXX says YYY"? Or do you tell them that a fridge that is capable of tripping a GFCI is a clear and present threat to human life?
 
steve66

steve66

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Illinois
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Engineer
Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

If they are worried about a fridge tripping a GFCI, they can have the electrician install an alarm. Maybe a GFCI breaker with a aux alarm contact feeding a bell or phone dialer.

Steve
 
ryan_618

ryan_618

Senior Member
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

Charlie, what I do when I enforce and when I teach is explain why this section is in the code. That is, there have been fatalites because of this, in particular, involving refrigerators. I then explain the NEMA and UL standard for appliances that permit not more than 1/2 of 1 milliamp of leakage surrent...far less than the 4-6 milliamps that are required to trip a class A GFCI. The bottom line to me, is that if your appliances are tripping the GFCI, it is time for a new and safe appliance, not time for an exception to the code.

By the way, if anyone is interested and didn't know already about the court thing, it can be found in THIS THREAD from a couple of years back. Ultimatley the case was dropped.
 
charlie b

charlie b

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Lockport, IL
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Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

Originally posted by ryan_618:The bottom line to me, is that if your appliances are tripping the GFCI, it is time for a new and safe appliance, not time for an exception to the code.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Ryan. That is what I had thought.
 
T

TiptonEng

New member
Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

Charlie you bring up good points. I've read some of the reasoning for adding the GFCI rule and it was based on a couple of individuals that plugged or unplugged commercial kitchen equipment that were injured. So now that the restaurant industry is protecting there 18 year old employees from getting shocked. Who is going to protect the public from food poisoning. I'm sure it will be the same 18 year old employee that will reset the GFCI when it trips, but how long was it off? I feel that if people can't learn how to use a plug and receptacle at home, I'm sure they aren't going to learn it at Work.

Regarding the question of how do we know if it was the compressor or the wiring that caused the GFCI to trip; based on what I have read on this forum and what I have heard from my clients for their new installations, it's caused by the starting of the compressor. My advice to the client has been to stop using small refrigerators with cord and plug connections. Use a hardwired connection and forget the GFCI.

When people start getting sick from food that was not kept at its proper temperature, then maybe the NEC will look deeper into this situtation. We can only do so much to protect people from their own mistakes. Ever heard of the Darwing Awards?

My hats off to the State of Tennessee for doing something about this, rather than just saying Artilce XXX, Paragraph XXX says I must do this.
 
ryan_618

ryan_618

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Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

Tipton: Food poisoning I can deal with. Dead bodies from electrocution I cannot.

Thumbs down to Tennessee for deleting it, in my opinion.
 
roger

roger

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Fl
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Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

Tipton, these refrigerator circuits can be monitored and alarmed very easily as pointed out by Steve.

With any security system incorporating a dialer, the manager and assistant managers can be called upon loss of power.

As far as a properly working compressor tripping a GFCI, on every OSHA compliant construction job site, there are starting loads for saws, drills, pumps, and even compressors, that work day after day with out nuisance trips.

Roger
 
M

macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

Refrigerator on gfi, I like it. I been to a lot of resturant service calls where kitchen personel tell me they get shocked from coolers, fridges and the like. Now just so long as we don't mess with appliances designed to keep a very cold temperature on the interior at medical facility's for storage of blood plasma. If that ever gets required to have gfi protection, we are going to hear it good from the doctors.
 
iwire

iwire

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Massachusetts
Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

I find the 'food poisoning' argument weak.

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There are no requirements to have these refrigerators connected to generators or UPS systems. The utility supply can stop any time.
    .</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If we are to believe that a restaurant will serve us food coming out of a warm refrigerator we can only imagine what else they are not doing for their customers safety. :)

    [ August 31, 2005, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Dnkldorf

Dnkldorf

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Re: GFI for comm refrigerators? 2002 NEC 210.8(B)(3)

(editted for being a bonehead)

[ August 31, 2005, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: Dnkldorf ]
 
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