GFI Fridge poppin

Status
Not open for further replies.
wyreman

wyreman

Senior Member
Location
SF CA USA
Occupation
electrical contractor
Two wire receptacle replaced by 15 GFI outlet.
Works for years.
Call back. Fridge only pops that outlet.
Nearby GFI powers fridge without incident.

Going to replace it with a 20A GFI.

What was the reason again why compressors pop GFIs?
Is it because inrush current is too much?

Also GFI not advised for fridge by manufacturer.
Food spoils...

But no single dedicated recpt allowed here with two wires...

What was the reason again why fridges pop GFIs?
thanx
 
Two possibilities:

1. The GFCI receptacle is faulty.

2. The fridge has leakage current.

Your post suggests #1.
 
LarryFine said:
Two possibilities:

1. The GFCI receptacle is faulty.

2. The fridge has leakage current.

Your post suggests #1.
Click to expand...


Or the GFCI that they plugged into on the counter is faulty and wont trip. Using a 20 amp GFCI wont change a thing. A 15 amp GFCI is just fine.
 
but I remember they go faulty especially on the fridge because of all the heavy loading, that must be the reason, the compressor.
 
wyreman said:
Two wire receptacle replaced by 15 GFI outlet.
Works for years.
Call back. Fridge only pops that outlet.
Nearby GFI powers fridge without incident.

Going to replace it with a 20A GFI.
Click to expand...


Be careful not to put a 20 amp rec. on a 15 amp circuit. Look at table 210.21 (B) (3)
 
yired29 said:
Be careful not to put a 20 amp rec. on a 15 amp circuit. Look at table 210.21 (B) (3)
Click to expand...

That's fine and you're right. Thank you:D
The wire is #12 with no derating needed.

As far as safety/nuisance goes, what difference would it make if there was a 15A CB and 15A wire and 20A device [dedicated behind residential fridge]. It would be more of a nuisance. CB protects wire and device. Allowing heavy load would only trip overcurrent protection device. Not likely someone would use 20A side prong plug, and if so, then swap out the CB to allow the special load behind the fridge, and then heat up the whole 100 foot run of wire. In this case, if it was a 15A CB I would spec 15A Class A CB.
 
wyreman said:
That's fine and you're right. Thank you:D
The wire is #12 with no derating needed.

As far as safety/nuisance goes, what difference would it make if there was a 15A CB and 15A wire and 20A device [dedicated behind residential fridge]. It would be more of a nuisance. CB protects wire and device. Allowing heavy load would only trip overcurrent protection device. Not likely someone would use 20A side prong plug, and if so, then swap out the CB to allow the special load behind the fridge, and then heat up the whole 100 foot run of wire. In this case, if it was a 15A CB I would spec 15A Class A CB.
Click to expand...

The rules are in place we just try to follow them. What if you had a faulity 15 amp OCPD?
 
wyreman said:
but I remember they go faulty especially on the fridge because of all the heavy loading, that must be the reason, the compressor.
Click to expand...

Household refrigerators are not really all that heavy of a load. I have GFCI receptacles that have been used as temporary construction receptacles many times and they get loaded way more than typical refrigerator would load them.

Read 250.114 your refrigerator needs to be connected to an equipment grounding conductor. There are no exceptions to this rule.

406.3(D)(3) may allow a GFCI to be installed where replacing a non grounding type receptacle where no equipment ground is present.

If you are concerned about GFCI tripping and causing food spoilage then install an equipment ground and don't use the GFCI.

A GFCI with no equipment ground is not likely to trip even if the case of the protected equipment becomes energized unless there is a grounded source in contact with the protected equipment. Where is the fault current required to trip the GFCI going to flow? Once something becomes that path then the GFCI will trip.

Use a megohmeter to test from the refrigerator current carrying conductors to the equipment ground and/or case of refrigerator (which should all be bonded together anyway)

From what you have said sounds like your GFCI receptacle may possibly be defective but you need to determine if it is tripping for a reason it was designed for or not.
 
First of all GFCI receptacles do not have any over current protection devices in them, they will pass the full current that the supplying breaker can supply, so the start up current of the refrigerator will not trip a GFCI on any over load, a GFCI measures the current between the hot and neutral, it does not reference any grounding to do this, this is why we can use them on a two wire circuit, the most common problems with motor loads are inductive kick back, this has plagued GFCI's and AFCI's alike, UL requirements over the years has made them better but there are quite a few cheep GFCI receptacles being sold out there that are still very subject to inductive kick back, I have found that the cheep no-name ones sold by Menard's have this problem. I use either P&S or levinton and never have this problem.
 
gfi recp on refrig.

gfi recp on refrig.

In my 42 years in the electrical trade I come to find that the door switch on a refrig is usually inserted into the neutral and the moisture caused by sweating causes many GFI recepts to trip-this is why manufactures do not recommend GFIs on them!
 
Last edited:
Cheap GFIs

Cheap GFIs

I also have had a bad experience with Menards GFIs-my boss thought he would be smart and wire a Little Ceasars with them-we had to go back and replace each one as they failed-some money saving idea this was.
 
Last edited:
Al Ewaldt said:
In my 42 years in the electrical trade I come to find that the door switch on a refrig is usually inserted into the neutral and the moisture caused by sweating causes many GFI recepts to trip-this is why manufactures do not recommend GFIs on them!
Click to expand...

Failing defrost heaters is also a common cause of GFCI tripping.
 
Al Ewaldt said:
I also have had a bad experience with Menards GFIs-my boss thought he would be smart and wire a Little Ceasars with them-we had to go back and replace each one as they failed-some money saving idea this was.
Click to expand...

Like their ads claim

"You save 'big money' when you shop Menards"

What they don't tell you is if you actually buy any of their good quality items they cost about the same as anyplace else.
 
wyreman said:
Two wire receptacle replaced by 15 GFI outlet.
Works for years.
Call back. Fridge only pops that outlet.
Nearby GFI powers fridge without incident.

Going to replace it with a 20A GFI.

What was the reason again why compressors pop GFIs?
Is it because inrush current is too much?

Also GFI not advised for fridge by manufacturer.
Food spoils...

But no single dedicated recpt allowed here with two wires...

What was the reason again why fridges pop GFIs?
thanx
Click to expand...

Does the fridge have an icemaker waterline? If so, it copper all the way to the supply?
 
1. The 15a-vs-20a discussion is irrelevant to the GFCI nuisance tripping. The only difference between them is the slot configuration.

2. An EGC is not relevant to GFCI operation, except that it make it easier for leakage current to the chassis to cause nuisance tripping.

3. The tripping mentioned in statement #2 is not a malfunction of the GFCI device, it's a malfunction of the plugged-in equipment.

4. MJC's question is a valid one, as it might be the only pathway for fault current, other than contact to ground through a person's body.
 
LarryFine said:
1. The 15a-vs-20a discussion is irrelevant to the GFCI nuisance tripping. The only difference between them is the slot configuration.

2. An EGC is not relevant to GFCI operation, except that it make it easier for leakage current to the chassis to cause nuisance tripping.

3. The tripping mentioned in statement #2 is not a malfunction of the GFCI device, it's a malfunction of the plugged-in equipment.

4. MJC's question is a valid one, as it might be the only pathway for fault current, other than contact to ground through a person's body.
Click to expand...

what about inductive kickback or back EMF?
Why do GFIs seem to go bad on inductive switching loads so much more often?
And manufacturer recommends against them.
 
Bit of an aside. I had an issue with a GFI recently it was a Leviton issue no.B319410. The scenario was it was one of the small appliance branch circuits for the kitchen. I had spliced a junction box into the line in the basement and ran a line for the refrigerator, in the kitchen, receptacle from the j box. Although the refrigerator wasn't on the load side of the GFI it would still trip whenever someone would get water from the door of the ref. Replaced the GFI and no more tripping. The wiring was panel to j-box with a line to the GFI and a line to ref. (half the kitchen counter receptacles were daisy chained off load of GFI).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top