GFI myth

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mcelweec@gmail.com

CMAC1
Location
NYC
Occupation
Electrician
I recently temped a site with NM cabling and laundry drops all fed from GFCI breakers,today 2 subs were written up (by OSHA) for not providing protection with a cord set,when they showed the inspector the breakers he told them that this is a myth and protection must be provided at the tool.Is this true?
 
J

jeremysterling

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX
Wow, all those hundred of thousands of GFCI temp stands around the world, all built because of a myth.:roll:

I'm guessing the inspector is wrong but I don't have the OSHA citation to back that up.:)
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
mcelweec@gmail.com said:
I recently temped a site with NM cabling and laundry drops all fed from GFCI breakers,today 2 subs were written up (by OSHA) for not providing protection with a cord set,when they showed the inspector the breakers he told them that this is a myth and protection must be provided at the tool.Is this true?
Click to expand...

He is correct. GFCIs only work for 6mm of wire length.

The exception is for tools that have the 'Craftsman' brand name. With those no GFCI protection is required.:-?:-?:-?
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
mcelweec@gmail.com said:
I recently temped a site with NM cabling and laundry drops all fed from GFCI breakers,today 2 subs were written up (by OSHA) for not providing protection with a cord set,when they showed the inspector the breakers he told them that this is a myth and protection must be provided at the tool.Is this true?
Click to expand...

No it Is not.
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
jeremysterling said:
Wow, all those hundred of thousands of GFCI temp stands around the world, all built because of a myth.:roll:

I'm guessing the inspector is wrong but I don't have the OSHA citation to back that up.:)
Click to expand...

He has got to be wrong they are pluged into GFCI breakers.
 
pfalcon

pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
mivey said:
A myth propagated by the CFR as well as the OSHA web site. Sounds like the only tool that needs something additional is the inspector.

In addition to the CFR and OSHA site, here is another source:
http://www.orosha.org/pdf/pubs/fact_sheets/fs14.pdf
Click to expand...

Your URL shows the source of the inspector's new myth:
If a permanently wired receptacle (not equipped with GFCI protection) is used for temporary electric power in a construction project, GFCI protection must be provided at the user end.
Click to expand...
GFCI is required. It is provided by the breakers in the OP. Undoubtedly at some time the inspector got burned over someone trying to use permanent circuits for construction. Now he thinks all circuits need it at the user end.
 
renosteinke

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
It scarees me that any with the authority to write a citation would be so illiterate and ignorant as to not be able to read and understand a simple sentence.

Re: Not provided with GFCI protection

We all know that it's provided by a GFCI breaker.

Now ... hop into the 'way back' machine ....

At one time OSHA rules required 'user' GFCI's, as ordinary GFCI's did not shut things off if the neutral was lost. When GFCI's were re-designed a few years ago (was it 2003?), this difference between GFCI devices, breakers, and job-site GFCI's disappeared. That's what the little padlock symbol on Leviton devices means: they shut power off if you have an open neutral.

If I were the judge, I'd not only dismiss the citations ... I'd censure the AHJ.
 
W

wtucker

Senior Member
Location
Connecticut
It's the branch circuit, not the receptacle or tool, that must be protected on a construction site:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=25046

In an existing building with permanent wiring, it's the extension cords that must be protected:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20251

Note that Question 2 asks whether the receptacles must be protected, but that the answer says the cord sets must be protected, then quotes the preamble to the standard saying the receptacles must be protected--by either a GFCI or an Assured Equipment Grounding Conductor Program. Placing a portable GFCI where the cord is plugged into the permanent wiring protects not only the receptacle, but the cord itself. Installing a GFCI breaker protects the entire branch circuit, no?
 
W

WorkSafe

Senior Member
Location
Moore, OK
I would make sure the company responds to the citation within it's alloted time, 15 days I believe or else you would be on the hook. If you can prove to the Area Director that the circuit was protected, he/she will most likely dismiss the citation.

Remember folks, OSHA inspectors are not electricians, but trained according to industry they are in, i.e. General, Construction, Maritime, etc. He/she may need additional training, but you can't expect these folks to be perfect.

Just make sure you got your ducks in a line and contest the citation, and get a lawyer.
 
G

goodcode

Member
This is not unusual.
The contractors ran into an uninformed CSHO. Be sure to tell them to contest the citation. They will win. OSHA is wrong in this case. Once elevated from the area office to the region it will be dropped.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top