GFI, not GFCI

[beanland]

I ran into something today for the first time. Manufacturer of ductless heap pump calls for GFI protection for the 230V branch circuit serving one or more indoor units. Since each indoor unit is ~1A, this means a 15A 2-pole GFI breaker. From what I can find, this will be a 30mA trip, not the 6mA (GFCI) for human protection. I see that SQD makes a QO-EPD. What about other manufacturers? Has anyone else encountered this?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Gfp is not a Gfi. Gfi and gfci are IMO, the same. Gfp is the one with the higher threshold. Ground fault protection for equipment which is different than gfi or gfci

 

[beanland]

GFCI, GFP, GFI

GFCI, GFP, GFI

In general, we agree GFCI is for personnel protection at 6mA.

Ground-fault protection (GFP) is the general term for what is used on services, feeders, branches over 1000A. The setting can be up to 1200A.

But, how do we distinguish that from 30mA or 100mA ground-fault interruption used for equipment protection. Right or not, Square D and Siemens refer to them as GFI.

But, has anyone else installed them?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

In general, we agree GFCI is for personnel protection at 6mA.

Ground-fault protection (GFP) is the general term for what is used on services, feeders, branches over 1000A. The setting can be up to 1200A.

But, how do we distinguish that from 30mA or 100mA ground-fault interruption used for equipment protection. Right or not, Square D and Siemens refer to them as GFI.

But, has anyone else installed them?

Not sure, My understanding that 30 ma is gfp and I never heard it referred to as gfi. In everyday talk most ec I know say gfi for gfci. We may be wrong

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is one item in the nec that mentions gfp. I believe you can order gfp device for small circuits

555.3 Ground-Fault Protection. The overcurrent protective
devices that supply the marina, boatyards, and commercial and
noncommercial docking facilities shall have ground-fault
protection not exceeding 30 mA.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is a thread on the issue

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=127665

 

[hbiss]

I ran into something today for the first time. Manufacturer of ductless heap pump calls for GFI protection for the 230V branch circuit serving one or more indoor units.

More to the point, we had that discussion also. See if the instructions say "where required" or some such language. I think last time we talked about this, the requirement was copied from the European instruction manual and not applicable here.

-Hal

 

[Dennis Alwon]

More to the point, we had that discussion also. See if the instructions say "where required" or some such language. I think last time we talked about this, the requirement was copied from the European instruction manual and not applicable here.

-Hal

In europe they call the gfci an rcd- residual current device. I don't believe they would call it a gfci or gfi

 

[Dennis Alwon]

BTW, a gfp is probably going to cost you $300. I believe all manufacturers make the 30 ma gf units. Youcan call it what you want but I have never had to install a gfp on a mini split unit or any system like that.

Who is the manufacturer?

 

[beanland]

Siemens GFI

Siemens GFI

Siemens Website:

Equipment Protection Ground-Fault Interrupters (30mA)

Ground fault interrupters are an effective means of preventing severe electrical shock. A GFI device which protects equipment (not people) is allowed to trip as high as 30 mA of current.

To protect against electrical shock, Siemens Equipment Ground Fault Interrupters continuously monitor the difference in current between the hot and neutral conductors. If the electricity going to an outlet equals the current coming back from the outlet, the Equipment Ground Fault Interrupter is dormant. If the electricity going to an outlet is greater than 30mA than the current coming back from the outlet, the Equipment Ground Fault Interrupter will open the circuit to stop of flow of electricity.

The Siemens 1-pole GFI circuit breaker is to be installed only on a single phase 120/240V AC system.

The Siemens 2-pole GFI circuit breaker can be installed on a 120/240V AC single phase, 3 wire system, the 120/240V AC portion of a 240/120 volt, 3 phase, 4 wire system, or on a 208Y/120 volt, 3 phase, 4 wire system. When installed on these systems, protection is provided for 2 wire, 240V AC or 208V AC circuits; 3 wire, 120/240V AC circuits.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Okay but they are still calling it an equipment gfi. I have never heard it called that.. the nec does not use that term either.

 

[kwired]

In general, we agree GFCI is for personnel protection at 6mA.

Ground-fault protection (GFP) is the general term for what is used on services, feeders, branches over 1000A. The setting can be up to 1200A.

But, how do we distinguish that from 30mA or 100mA ground-fault interruption used for equipment protection. Right or not, Square D and Siemens refer to them as GFI.

But, has anyone else installed them?

Square D calls the 30mA verion "EPD" and the 100mA version "EPE".

They are not cheap.

 

[hbiss]

In europe they call the gfci an rcd- residual current device. I don't believe they would call it a gfci or gfi

Ok, maybe it was Japan since they are all Japanese manufactured. Just going from rusty memory here.

Why would we require a GFI on split system indoor units?

-Hal

 

[romex jockey]

GFCI ,GFPE, LCDI, RCD, AFCI, the list goes on....

~RJ~

 

[electrofelon]

GFCI ,GFPE, LCDI, RCD, AFCI, the list goes on....

~RJ~

Had a client who wanted me to put in some "GAF's" lol.