Gfi

[mikex915]

I was installing outdoor outlets today. Not GFI just reg outlets. Used weatherproof boxes and covers. I thought all outdoor repceptacles didn't have to be GFI. I'm here looking throught the codebook just trying to learn. I'm new in this field, 9 months. I came across 210.8(A)(3). Am I getting confused? It says if its readily accessible it will take a GFI? I might not be understanding this right. Just hoping someone out there could shed some light on this for me.

 

[George Stolz]

Before we begin, are you working under a trained, licensed, yada yada yada?

Also, are you aware that a GFI can protect regular receptacles that are installed after the GFI in the circuit, after the actual GFI with the Test and Reset buttons on it?

 

[infinity]

Mike,

Welcome to the forum. As George indicated we want to be sure that you're working under an experienced electrician. We're happy to see that you want to learn. Once we know where you're coming from we'll be better equipped to help you.

 

[mikex915]

I know that a GFI can protect regular receptacles that are installed after the GFI in the circuit. I'm working with a licensed electrian. I was just looking through the code and didn't understand the wording used ion the NEC.

 

[celtic]

I was just looking through the code and didn't understand the wording used ion the NEC.

I hope you don't think you're the only one

You can buy a NEC Handbook (try amazon.com). The handbook has lots of pictures and commentary on the NEC (along with the full content of the NEC.)

There are plenty of books out there that do a great job of explaining the NEC without the techincal jargon and lots of pictures.

As an example:

This is from [Mike Holt's NEC? Illustration (FREE)] Just visit www.mikeholt.com (This forums "parent page).

Mike's site has TONS of info...some free..some you need to buy. Either way, you win

 

[George Stolz]

Mike, welcome to the forum. You've come to the right place. I recommend you change your profile to "Apprentice" to avoid having this conversation over again, next time you post.

I thought all outdoor repceptacles didn't have to be GFI.

You're right. The basic formula for the codebook is simple: A rule is given. Unless the rule has an exception, or is modified later in the codebook, then it applies in all situations described.

So, looking at this section, 210.8, we'll take it from the top:

(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through ( shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

So, for starters, every single 15A and 20A receptacle listed is required to have GFCI protection.

• (A)Dwelling Units
• (B)Other than Dwelling Units

So, once you decide if it is a dwelling unit or not, you move on.
You're working outdoors.

(3) Outdoors

So, every single 15A and 20A receptacle outdoors is required to have GFCI protection.

But, there is an exception:


​

Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted to be installed in accordance with 426.28.

​

Now, before you jog down the bunny trail to 426.28, just ask yourself: "Are any of the receptacles I am working with for de-icing equipment?" If the answer is no, then you can't make use of the exception this time. Further, if any aspect of the exception doesn't match your scenario (not readily accessible, dedicated circuit), then you can't use the exception.​

Does that make sense?​

The receptacle itself doesn't need to be a GFCI. But it does need GFCI protection. There are times when the specific wording may call for a GFCI receptacle itself - but they are few and far between. For most occasions, just having the protection is required.​

​

 

[mikex915]

thanks for the help. I'll be sure to change my profile

 

[haskindm]

Mike,
If the installation you are working on is considered "Other Than Dwelling Units" you will need to decide if the outdoor receptacle is "in public spaces". If it is it needs GFCI protection, if it is not GFCI is not required (I guess we don't care if employees get electrocuted), unless it is installed to satisfy 210.63 which requires a receptacle within 25' of HVAC equipment (HVAC mechanics are protected by GFCI, but not employees - go figure). You will also need to find out if "The Authority Having Jurisdiction" (AHJ) considers the receptacle "in a public space". I hope nobody ever led you to believe that the code was simple and straight forward.

 

[77401]

915 welcome to the forum.
Are you unsupervised? Wheres your daddy?LOL
Fagetabout Mike's Web site...
Just follow Celtic's post around, He has the best graphics to cut & paste.
Too bad you missed his [SIZE=-1]1980 Kiefer Sutherland Avatar with the spiked hair!
Oh yea.., do get a code book.
[/SIZE]

 

[dlhoule]

Welcome

Welcome

mikex915

Welcome to the forum and don't pay any attention to these other guys. The NEC is simple and straightforward. I truly believe that if I live another 50 or 60 years, I'll have a pretty good understanding of it.

I'll also mention you stated GFI instead of GFCI. There is a difference. One is for people and one is for equipment.

 

[roger]

Larry, you're thinking GFP verses GFI or GFCI.

Roger

 

[infinity]

Larry, you're thinking GFP verses GFI or GFCI.

Roger

I agree GFPE or GFP.