Good old emergency disconnect question.

B

Bcordi82

Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Electrician
If i install emergency disconnect as not service equipment. Does that disconnect have to be unfused. Only reason im asking is cause we had a fail for this and have been looking for a code.
 
infinity

infinity

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Staff member
Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
No it can have overcurrent protection. Simplest way (cheapest) is a circuit breaker with the proper labels.

Welcome to the Forum.
 
infinity

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
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It's in 230.85(3). Circuit breakers are clearly listed.
230.85 Emergency Disconnects.
For one- and two-family dwelling units, all service conductors shall terminate in disconnecting means having a short-circuit current rating equal to or greater than the available fault current, installed in a readily accessible outdoor location. If more than one disconnect is provided, they shall be grouped. Each disconnect shall be one of the following:
(1) Service disconnects marked as follows:
EMERGENCY DISCONNECT,
SERVICE DISCONNECT
(2) Meter disconnects installed per 230.82(3) and marked as follows:
EMERGENCY DISCONNECT,
METER DISCONNECT,
NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT
(3) Other listed disconnect switches or circuit breakers on the supply side of each service disconnect that are suitable for use as service equipment and marked as follows:
EMERGENCY DISCONNECT,
NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT
Markings shall comply with 110.21(B).
Click to expand...
 
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K

Ken_S

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Electrician
Some inspectors feel that once you install a fuse or circuit breaker that is now the main and you would need to separate the neutral and EGC from that point on. Per the cited code, I feel the inspector is incorrect.

That however assumes that everything thing else is correct.
 
J

John A

Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Inspector
If the 230.85 Emergency Disconnect has overcurrent protection (fused or circuit breaker) then is that NOT considered the first means of OCP??

If a non-fused knife switch disconnect is installed, then it is just the 'Emergency Disconnect/Not service disconnect?

Finding a Non-Fused disconnect that is OVER 10K fault current, I have not seen any.

So, a CB used as the 230.85 compliant disconnect, with the required label, is the Main OCP, and the N/G bonding is within that enclosure,
and 4-wire is installed to the panel, which is treated as a 'sub-panel.

Comments, gentlemen please.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
John A said:
If the 230.85 Emergency Disconnect has overcurrent protection (fused or circuit breaker) then is that NOT considered the first means of OCP??

If a non-fused knife switch disconnect is installed, then it is just the 'Emergency Disconnect/Not service disconnect?

Finding a Non-Fused disconnect that is OVER 10K fault current, I have not seen any.

So, a CB used as the 230.85 compliant disconnect, with the required label, is the Main OCP, and the N/G bonding is within that enclosure,
and 4-wire is installed to the panel, which is treated as a 'sub-panel.

Comments, gentlemen please.
Click to expand...
It is not the service disconnect if the label that you put on it says "EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT".

If you mark the emergency disconnect that way, you can run three service conductors to the inside service equipment and connect the GEC and the main bonding jumper at the inside service equipment.

If you mark it "EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, SERVICE DISCONNECT", then the bonding and grounding is done in the emergency disconnect and you run a 4 wire feeder to the inside panel.

There is no physical difference in the two installations. The only thing that changes is the label.

This has been such a problem, it is very likely that 230.85 will not be in the 2026 code, and the code will simply require that the service disconnect for one and two family dwellings be outside.
 
infinity

infinity

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Staff member
Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
don_resqcapt19 said:
It is not the service disconnect if the label that you put on it says "EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT".

If you mark the emergency disconnect that way, you can run three service conductors to the inside service equipment and connect the GEC and the main bonding jumper at the inside service equipment.

There is no physical difference in the two installations. The only thing that changes is the label.
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Correct, to go along with the photo I posted in post #6 there are only three conductors run to the panel on the interior which has a 200 amp breaker serving as the service disconnect. All of the GEC's land there as well. The 200 amp breaker on the outside (below) is (as labeled in the post #6 photo) only the emergency disconnect.
Emergency Disconnect.jpg
 
E

eds

Senior Member
how Would one view a meter main that has feed thru lugs and provisions for 4 breakers. Installing a breaker into the enclosure to feed a remote barn does that require the egc? The 200 amp breaker shuts off the the provisions for the 4 breakers spaces
 

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infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
eds said:
how Would one view a meter main that has feed thru lugs and provisions for 4 breakers. Installing a breaker into the enclosure to feed a remote barn does that require the egc? The 200 amp breaker shuts off the the provisions for the 4 breakers spaces
Click to expand...
How old is this? Prior to the 2008 NEC a separate structure did not require an EGC run with the feeder when some conditions were met. Looks like an 8 circuit panel with feed through lugs.
 
E

eds

Senior Member
Actually inherited the job. Utility put the meter combo in to accomadare the new shop. So the wires under the feed thru lugs were installed 25 years ago. The wires not landed were installed 2 weeks ago. I know the original wires would fall under the exception, but the freshly installed wires likely need the egc. Reading thru this thread on emergency disconnects geo me thinking, if the only label on the enclosure is emergency disconnect can the new wires be left as is
 
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