Got me thinking

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southernboys#2

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Hey guys reading the article on furring strips im a little confused. I dont think we use furring strips around here. My question is where romex is run for homeruns over trusses does it need to be strapped at a certain interval? I know if it runs parrelleel it does but confused about over the top of them. thanks also what are these furring strips and where are thet typically used
 
Re: Got me thinking

Unless it's fished through an existing space I don't see how you can get around the requirement for it being secured . IMO, simply draping it over trusses does not meet the requirement.
 
Re: Got me thinking

These furring strips are typically 1x2's or 1x3's run perpendicularly to the joists or trusses, and can be shimmed to make a ceiling flatter than it would be otherwise if the framing is uneven.

Sometimes, the furring is used to change the direction of the long dimension of the drywall, because it is usually installed perpendicularly to the framing to which it is attached.
 
Re: Got me thinking

To add to Larry's post sometime they are also required by building code as they are here in MA and I think most of the New England States.

I also agree with Infinity's post, supported by trusses is not secured to trusses.
 
Re: Got me thinking

Originally posted by iwire:
To add to Larry's post sometime they are also required by building code as they are here in MA and I think most of the New England States.

I also agree with Infinity's post, supported by trusses is not secured to trusses.
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This "furring" aka "strapping" is not required by MA building code, but is a standard practice in the eastern half of MA. My limited personal experience is that the neighboring NE states do not use this practice. As Larry mentioned, it's purpose is to straighten a ceiling. In it's inception, framing was either post and beam, or rough sawn lumber. Strings were pulled and framing members were notched or strapping was shimmed to straighten ceiling. Nowadays with standard dimensional lumber, the practice has sort of just carried over as a better way to support drywall. It helps keep joists from twisting, and when joists do move, strapping usually stays in place, eliminating many screw "pops". I've met several plasterers (typically here in MA finish is blueboard with skimcoat plaster rather than drywall) who say they will not do a job if ceiling is not strapped.

And yes romex laying above a truss still needs to be secured.
 
Re: Got me thinking

Originally posted by j_erickson:
This "furring" aka "strapping" is not required by MA building code, but is a standard practice in the eastern half of MA.
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Interesting and I will be checking into it more.

Kind of strange that it has carried over to metal stud jobs.

Seems at least a few builders would have looked to the savings that could be had if it is not in fact required.

[ January 07, 2006, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Got me thinking

Here in central Illinois,Champaign,Bloomington, Peoria, no one that I have seen staples or secures romex in attics. Wires just lay on top of the trusses. Why would stpling them make anything safer?
 
Re: Got me thinking

Originally posted by iwire:


Seems at least a few builders would have looked to the savings that could be had if it is not in fact required.
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I have a close friend who is a lumber salesman. He has a builder just west of sturbridge who will not strap his houses.

Some builders who I work for do not strap the garage ceilings in order to save a few bucks.
 
Re: Got me thinking

I am listening John and have been looking through the building code and can find nothing yet to support my position.

That said in this time of high steel and labor costs it is hard to conceive of why all the buildings we work on with metal stud construction are voluntarily installing strapping as it is not used for 'flattening' a ceiling as metal joists are generally straight unless bent by the delivery truck driver.

It's a puzzler to me.

Heck they beat our price so far down we need to wire with zip cord and tape to make money. :roll: :eek:
 
Re: Got me thinking

Originally posted by iwire:
I am listening John and have been looking through the building code and can find nothing yet to support my position.

That said in this time of high steel and labor costs it is hard to conceive of why all the buildings we work on with metal stud construction are voluntarily installing strapping as it is not used for 'flattening' a ceiling as metal joists are generally straight unless bent by the delivery truck driver.

It's a puzzler to me.

Heck they beat our price so far down we need to wire with zip cord and tape to make money. :roll: :eek:
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Is it possible that this method is "spec'd" for some unknown reason?

Also, ceiling cavities must be "fireblocked" so that the total area does not exceed 1000 square feet (off the top of my head). So where ever this steel furring is being used, the areas must be blocked so that a fire can not "run" through the whole cavity., if you are in a large area. I think this is why the typical center partitions in residential are blocked. I can't find any other reason.
 
Re: Got me thinking

Bob,

I don't have my building codebook with me, but there is also a requirement that if floor joist dimensions depth:width ratio exceeds 6:1 nominal dimension (i.e. 2 x 12), the "bridging" or lateral support must be provided. Is it possible that this is the reason?
 
Re: Got me thinking

Of course things are different everywhere you go. Even from town to town. For the most part, here in central Oklahoma, we staple romex in the required intervals on cross members (straps) IF the joist are more than 3' below the roof slope. Due to the possibility of someone walking through the attic and stepping on a romex. So we either run the romex over to a strap or "stiff-back" or have a strap put where we want it. In spaces less than 3' between the roof slope and the truss or joist, we do not staple.
 
Re: Got me thinking

iwire, I agree that the nec requires this. Still do not understand why. Step on a secured romex verses a non secured romex seems the same to me. Never had a inspector within 100 miles of Champaign ever enforce this. Might also add that stapling these wires in the attic would increase a chance of an afci to trip. Had an apprentice staple a romex in a bedroom to tightly and afci would trip ant time a load was put to it. I will agree that it is still the code. Do you or the others on the forum always do everything exactly by the book? Just wondering. Love this forum, Tim. ;)
 
Re: Got me thinking

Originally posted by tim:
iwire, I agree that the nec requires this. Still do not understand why. Step on a secured romex verses a non secured romex seems the same to me.
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If the NM can be stepped on it should be protected don't you think?

Originally posted by tim:
Might also add that stapling these wires in the attic would increase a chance of an afci to trip.
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And the difference in that between the staples in the attic and the staples in the walls is what?

Originally posted by tim:
Do you or the others on the forum always do everything exactly by the book?
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I can not speak for the others. :D

I can speak for myself and say no. I am not going to lie to anyone and say that I have never intentionally ignored a code rule.

I don't make a habit of it and the inspectors would bag me if I tried. :cool:
 
Re: Got me thinking

Man I love this forum. I am always learning something new. Iwire, I still do not see how securing romex would protect it when stepped on verses if it were just laying there. As far as securing romex in the wall is concerned, I think the nec goes overboard there also. As long as it is secure entering the box, I think that is good enough, But as you reminded me, that is not code. Guess that is why they don't ask me to write the code.
 
Re: Got me thinking

Originally posted by infinity:
I don't see how you can get around the requirement for it being secured . IMO, simply draping it over trusses does not meet the requirement.
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What would be the difference between draping it over trusses and running it through bored holes in a framing member. (Vertical 2x4)

Again, if it can be stepped on in an attic than secure it to a strap, header, or stiffback. If you can't step on it than let it lay.
 
Re: Got me thinking

Originally posted by Minuteman:
What would be the difference between draping it over trusses and running it through bored holes in a framing member. (Vertical 2x4)
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One meets the NEC and one is a violation. :p

One can not move because it is in a 'hole' and the other might as well be an extension cord stretched across the floor.

I think there is plenty of difference.
 
Re: Got me thinking

True enough Bob. I am looking at my 2002 since my 2005 is at the office, but it's code. One method is an interpretation of 334.30 and the other is a local practice that is accepted by ALL the AHJs that I deal with and is one AHJ's local supplement. And we wired two homes that way this week in different jurisdictions and passed both. But I can't argue... It's code.

Notwithstanding, I see no difference in how much "support" there is.
 
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