Grandfathered

[wireday]

Was asked to install a timer on a machine. The timer would start the machine at a set time. The machine is 30 years old and built on site. All the equipment for the machine is EMT ending up as switched receptacles. timer would be controlling the receptacles. The only way to lock this out is the out of sight CB.They have a strict LOTO policy with documentation etc.is this ok, they can lock out each plug to work on individual equipment, the machine was built in 1990 was the code different then? The timer I would be installing is hard wired to control the recepts does this need a local disconnect?

 

[ramsy]

Unless the equipment is only accessible to qualified persons, I believe a disconnect is required within sight. Qualified persons would have to lock out any disconnect not within sight.

 

[wireday]

Thank you Ramsy, I believe only qualified workers would be working on the electrical of the machine. As it is now the lockout can only be at the out of sight panel CB. I read in NEC that the provision for the lock must remain at the lockout location.My original thought was perhaps this is grandfathered, being almost 30 years old.The machine consist of emt coming down from the ceiling to the machine first a couple of switches then from there out to receptacle locations,one even going back up the emt to an overhead mezzanine.Not really sure how to look at it.

 

[kwired]

Thank you Ramsy, I believe only qualified workers would be working on the electrical of the machine. As it is now the lockout can only be at the out of sight panel CB. I read in NEC that the provision for the lock must remain at the lockout location.My original thought was perhaps this is grandfathered, being almost 30 years old.The machine consist of emt coming down from the ceiling to the machine first a couple of switches then from there out to receptacle locations,one even going back up the emt to an overhead mezzanine.Not really sure how to look at it.

I think you are mixing up NEC rules with other safety standard rules.

If NEC permits locking device on a breaker in lieu of a local disconnecting means - that must remain in place even when not being used.

A LOTO program may require things to be locked that NEC doesn't require a locking device or a local disconnect for. In those instances you still need to find a way to lock off your item that is compliant with your LOTO program.

 

[wireday]

I am thinking of this,430.102 Location.
(A) Controller.
......
Exception No. 2: A single disconnecting means shall be permitted for a group of coordinated controllers that drive several parts of a single machine or piece of apparatus.
.............

(B) Motor.
A disconnecting means shall be provided for a motor in accordance with (B)(1) or (B)(2).

(1) Separate Motor Disconnect.

A disconnecting means for the motor shall be located in sight from the motor location and the driven machinery location.

(2) Controller Disconnect.
.......
The controller disconnecting means required in accordance with 430.102(A) shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means for the motor if it is in sight from the motor location and the driven machinery location.

Exception to (1) and (2): The disconnecting means for the motor shall not be required under either condition (a) or condition (b), provided the controller disconnecting means required in accordance with 430.102(A) is individually capable of being locked in the open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to the controller disconnecting means shall be installed on or at the switch or circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means and shall remain in place with or without the lock installed.

(a) Where such a location of the disconnecting means for the motor is impracticable or introduces additional or increased hazards to persons or property

(b) In industrial installations, with written safety procedures, where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the equipment

In this case there is just a QO CB,using just a handle tie,the reason I mention the LOTO is because of 2 (b)

 

[wireday]

My main concern is being NEC compliant. There LOTO seems to meet what NEC requires. Not sure about locking the breaker with one of those thumb screw on the handle paddle lock devices meets the requirement or not.

 

[ramsy]

My main concern is being NEC compliant. There LOTO seems to meet what NEC requires. Not sure about locking the breaker with one of those thumb screw on the handle paddle lock devices meets the requirement or not.

I believe adding the new timer triggers current code requirements for disconnects of any grandfathered equipment, but for either NEC, or LOTO requirements the lockout must be capable of being locked. Here is a listed QO lockout

 

[kwired]

Was asked to install a timer on a machine. The timer would start the machine at a set time. The machine is 30 years old and built on site. All the equipment for the machine is EMT ending up as switched receptacles. timer would be controlling the receptacles. The only way to lock this out is the out of sight CB.They have a strict LOTO policy with documentation etc.is this ok, they can lock out each plug to work on individual equipment, the machine was built in 1990 was the code different then? The timer I would be installing is hard wired to control the recepts does this need a local disconnect?

Plug and receptacle would qualify as a disconnecting means. If you need to lock it out, there are cord end covers with locking provisions on them.

Per NEC the timer sounds like it is a motor controller? If it is motor controllers also need a disconnecting means within sight of the controller, NEC is silent as to whether or not it needs to be lockable though. Your LOTO policy may require it to be lockable.