Gray and Natural Gray

Status
Not open for further replies.

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
It should pointed out to everyone to be cautious when you encounter a gray wire, particularly in an existing installation. Up through the 1999 NEC, a grounded, or neutral, wire was to required to be white or natural gray. Natural gray is not the same as gray, and many electricians and inspectors did not know the difference, and therefore they were used interchangably.

Natural gray is a very light gray, not much darker than white, and has not been available for years. In low-light or poor-light situations, white and natural gray would be indistinguishable, even side-by-side. Yet many electricians improperly installed gray as an grounded (neutral), typically in 277/480 applications.

But there are some places where gray, the gray you can buy today, was (properly) installed at the time as an ungrounded (hot!) conductor. These installations are rare, but do exist, so caution should be exercised when you encounter a gray conductor.

The deletion of the word natural occured in the 2002 NEC, when it was concluded that too much gray had been already (incorrectly) installed as a grounded conductor. In that Code cycle, both white and gray became the required choices for grounded conductors.

So please be aware that if you encounter an existing gray wire today, treat it with suspicion until you can determine whether it's a hot or neutral. And don't jump to the conclusion that "Well, it was installed in 2003, so it has to be a neutral!". Many jurisdictions don't adopt the NEC the same year it is issued. An installation done in 2003 or even 2004 may have been performed under 1999 standards.
 
chris kennedy said:
Did you have a little accident yesterday?

No, it was a thread on another forum that brought this to mind, so I posted it here.

Actually, I didn't do one single electrical thing all day yesterday. That's right... I took a Saturday off! :) There, I admitted it... send the OT police after me....
 
480sparky said:
Actually, I didn't do one single electrical thing all day yesterday. That's right... I took a Saturday off! :) There, I admitted it... send the OT police after me....

I got work shoes and a hair cut. Woke up today and thought it was Monday.
 
augie47 said:
trust me, 55 ain't so old

Thanks Augie!....I will let you know how 55 feels after Monday. I have several elevator pits to inspect. Sometimes those pits wear me out and I do mean several. I figured I was old when I had to work with what Ken posted. Yeah I got lit up!......"Once".
 
georgestolz said:
Does anybody else have a hard time distinguishing many gray spools from black? It gives me fits, personally.

On occasion, yes. Seems like most manufacturers to use the 'pinch of this, dash of that' when they mix their dyes. I've ordered 2000' of one color and had 3 different shades in the same (unopened) box of 4 spools.
 
And don't always assume that a gray neutral is for a 277v circuit.

Another one that will get your attention in a hurry is in an old house where they used the green as a hot conductor.
 
georgestolz said:
Does anybody else have a hard time distinguishing many gray spools from black? It gives me fits, personally.

I was just in a house today where the 'black' wire in some old NMS was actually gray. I don't know if it was because of a bad dye lot or because of age but it made me take a second look, that's for sure! I don't mean 'light black', either....I mean gray!!
 
K8MHZ said:
I was just in a house today where the 'black' wire in some old NMS was actually gray. I don't know if it was because of a bad dye lot or because of age but it made me take a second look, that's for sure! I don't mean 'light black', either....I mean gray!!

Maybe the dye leached out into the sheath?
 
georgestolz said:
Does anybody else have a hard time distinguishing many gray spools from black? It gives me fits, personally.

it did happend to me once a while with some batch it get funky colours

espcally in low light area sometime hard to tell the diffrence unless you get the flashlight shine in there then you can see the diffrence.


cowboyjwc said:
And don't always assume that a gray neutral is for a 277v circuit.

Another one that will get your attention in a hurry is in an old house where they used the green as a hot conductor.

tell me about it i did see that few time in France and with very old system they did used the green as hot couple time but red conductor wire they were used as netrual :eek:

Merci, Marc
 
so grey can be used as an ungrounded conductor? I thought grey and natural grey can be used as a neutral for 277 applications
 
Ken 6789 said:
so grey can be used as an ungrounded conductor? I thought grey and natural grey can be used as a neutral for 277 applications

unforetarlly yes i did see it in few spots they used the grey as ungrounded conductor.

one place it did ring the bell to me is one machine shop used bunch of grey ungrounded conductors for branch circuits [ i corrected by highlighted and make a note in the panel until we replace the conductors at later date with correct colours]

that one reason i always test before ya get mess around with the grey conductor even other colour conductors can get ya by suprise { i went thru that all the time when i was living in France so it dont amuse me in the USA at all. it is the same sisuation just diffrent place that all }

Merci, Marc
 
Ken 6789 said:
so grey can be used as an ungrounded conductor? I thought grey and natural grey can be used as a neutral for 277 applications

Only in certain Jurisdictions. Read Article 200.6 (E) FPN...The color gray may have been used in the past as an ungrounded conductor.
 
480sparky said:
On occasion, yes. Seems like most manufacturers to use the 'pinch of this, dash of that' when they mix their dyes. I've ordered 2000' of one color and had 3 different shades in the same (unopened) box of 4 spools.

Color is a very subjective subject. The amount of dye that goes into insulation (most insulation starts out clear here) is not an exact science. What one operator calls red another calls pink. It's hard to standardize something that everyone sees differently. We've had people send wire back because they didn't like the color and we'll just send them another reel of the same thing and they're happy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top