Ground Electrode Conductor

[soccerbum264]

Are there any code violations with this install? We install a concrete post with a meter can on one side and a square d 100 amp load center on the other side. We connect our GEC to the utility grounded conductor in the meter can. According to 250.28(D)2 I would install the system bonding jumper in the load center, the green screw from neutral bar to enclosure? Then we install a ground bar in the load center EGC. A co worker says that we also need another ground electrode not connected to the other one and run the GEC to the ground bar in the load center. These two electrodes are less than 1’ apart. 250.53(3) calls for at least 6’ apart correct? Is the second electrode necessary?

 

[Little Bill]

If using ground rods you do need two of them, but not separated. In fact, you need to tie them together not less than 6' apart. You are allowed to connect the GEC, per the NEC, anywhere from the weatherhead down to the service disconnect. Some POCOs have rules about where among these allowed locations they will allow. Such as some say to connect in the meter socket, others won't allow them in the meter socket.

 

[soccerbum264]

If using ground rods you do need two of them, but not separated. In fact, you need to tie them together not less than 6' apart. You are allowed to connect the GEC, per the NEC, anywhere from the weatherhead down to the service disconnect. Some POCOs have rules about where among these allowed locations they will allow. Such as some say to connect in the meter socket, others won't allow them in the meter socket.

We drive a single ground electrode 20’ deep. Is that sufficient?

 

[Little Bill]

The code actually says either prove one ground rod is 25 ohms or less or drive two rods. I have no idea if your 20' electrode is sufficient. I don't think I ever saw a 20' ground rod. How would you even start that in the ground without some type of machinery such as what lineman use to set poles?

 

[soccerbum264]

The code actually says either prove one ground rod is 25 ohms or less or drive two rods. I have no idea if your 20' electrode is sufficient. I don't think I ever saw a 20' ground rod. How would you even start that in the ground without some type of machinery such as what lineman use to set poles?

Its 2-10’ rods. FDOT standards call for 20’ deep rod or 5 ohms.

 

[tom baker]

The rods have a coupling and they screw together.
Mike Holt has a video showing him driving rods and testing resistance.

 

[infinity]

You need to connect the GEC from the electrode at any point between the service point and the service disconnect. Since you've landed the GEC in the meter enclosure you have accomplished that. If you test your single rod and it's 25Ω or less you're code compliant. Since the panel contains the MBJ (main bonding jumper AKA the green screw) you do not need an additional EGC bus bar, the EGC's can terminate on the neutral bar.

 

[oldsparky52]

I was always under the impression that water pipe bonding (or steel or ufer or ...) had to go to the 1st means of disconnect (meter was not considered that) and you could take the ground rod connection to the meterbase if POCO allowed.

Would someone give me the code section that applies to this, I'd like to go read it and do not want to hunt it down. Thanks to anyone that gives the reference.

 

[infinity]

All of the electrodes can be connected together with a single GEC back to the neutral or they can be connected the neutral with separate GEC's and this can be done at different points. There is no single way to do it. In a typical home where the POCO allows you to connect in the meter some guys connect the ground rod GEC in the meter and the water pipe in the panel. Take a look at 250.24(A)(1) and 250.50.
Here's a graphic of 250.50 from mike:

 

[kwired]

All of the electrodes can be connected together with a single GEC back to the neutral or they can be connected the neutral with separate GEC's and this can be done at different points. There is no single way to do it. In a typical home where the POCO allows you to connect in the meter some guys connect the ground rod GEC in the meter and the water pipe in the panel. Take a look at 250.24(A)(1) and 250.50.
Here's a graphic of 250.50 from mike:

And if you connect multiple electrodes to different places like a rod at the meter and water pipe at the service disconnect, technically only one of them is connected to the GEC, the others are connected with bonding jumpers.

 

[infinity]

And if you connect multiple electrodes to different places like a rod at the meter and water pipe at the service disconnect, technically only one of them is connected to the GEC, the others are connected with bonding jumpers.

Are you saying that mulitple single conductors, one run from each of the different electrodes to the neutral would be not be a GEC?

 

[kwired]

Are you saying that mulitple single conductors, one run from each of the different electrodes to the neutral would be not be a GEC?

Only one is the GEC and must be unspliced to the electrode or use irreversible splicing method. The others are technically bonding jumpers and could be spliced. Code doesn't specify which one is to be the official GEC though, many times they all are unspliced but don't necessarily have to be that way.

 

[infinity]

Only one is the GEC and must be unspliced to the electrode or use irreversible splicing method. The others are technically bonding jumpers and could be spliced. Code doesn't specify which one is to be the official GEC though, many times they all are unspliced but don't necessarily have to be that way.

If I run a conductor from the rods to the neutral that's a GEC, if I run a second conductor from the water pipe to the neutral that's also a GEC. Are you saying that only one is a GEC and the other is a bonding jumper?

 

[kwired]

If I run a conductor from the rods to the neutral that's a GEC, if I run a second conductor from the water pipe to the neutral that's also a GEC. Are you saying that only one is a GEC and the other is a bonding jumper?

Yes, but at same time NEC doesn't designate which is which.

There is only one GEC in any installation.

 

[infinity]

Yes, but at same time NEC doesn't designate which is which.

There is only one GEC in any installation.

OK I wanted to be sure of your opinion before I said that I disagree.

 

[kwired]

OK I wanted to be sure of your opinion before I said that I disagree.

Or is it a clever way of saying "I changed my mind"

 

[infinity]

Or is it a clever way of saying "I changed my mind"

I haven't changed my mind, any single conductor run from a grounding electrode directly to the neutral is a GEC. Three electrodes, three conductors, three GEC's.

 

[kwired]

I haven't changed my mind, any single conductor run from a grounding electrode directly to the neutral is a GEC. Three electrodes, three conductors, three GEC's.

Was't sure which way you were going. I see what you are saying, I still think NEC only recognizes there is one GEC in an installation, though many times there can be more than one conductor that could be "it".

Say you have water pipe with required #2 GEC running to it yet the separate rod has separate permissible #6 running to it. Which one is the GEC? You certainly can't make a bonding jumper to a CEE off the #6 but could off the #2.

 

[infinity]

Was't sure which way you were going. I see what you are saying, I still think NEC only recognizes there is one GEC in an installation, though many times there can be more than one conductor that could be "it".

Say you have water pipe with required #2 GEC running to it yet the separate rod has separate permissible #6 running to it. Which one is the GEC? You certainly can't make a bonding jumper to a CEE off the #6 but could off the #2.

Both, if both the #2 and the #6 originate at the neutral.

 

[roger]

Say you have water pipe with required #2 GEC running to it yet the separate rod has separate permissible #6 running to it. Which one is the GEC? You certainly can't make a bonding jumper to a CEE off the #6 but could off the #2.

Both are GEC's, doesn't matter if one is to small to extend to another GE by way of jumper.

Roger