ground faults recep on afci breaker
- Thread starter AKwiring
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
C3PO said:
I also have done this many times. Not an issue at all. In fact I have never had an arc fault issue yet-- KOW.....
cloudymacleod
Senior Member
they will still work. but if the circuit is protected by gfci, why r u using afci?AKwiring said:Any experiences with ground fault receptacles on afci protected circuits? Do both still do their job? Thanks.
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
There are some instances where you need to. A wet bar receptacle in a master suite, for instance.cloudymacleod said:
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Dennis Alwon said:
:grin:
You are sooo screwed!
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
I cant believe he said that.electricmanscott said::grin:
You are sooo screwed!
Psychojohn
Member
- Location
- Oshkosh, Wisconsin
Why don't they make combination AFCI/GFCI breakers, that can be used to meet both needs.
rexowner
Senior Member
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrician
Psychojohn said:
One can only guess why.
My guess is that this is a business decision, possibly
based on there being a higher (I'm guessing) cost
to manufacture a device that met both AFCI and
(specifically 5 mA) GFCI requirements. It has been
pointed out above that in those (relatively rare)
situations where GFCI is needed where AFCI is
required (e.g. wet bar in master suite), the need
can be met with GFCI receptacles on AFCI breakers.
My guess is that there are not enough #'s of these
cases to justify the investment for the manufacturers.
Or, more cynically, they may just want to continue
to sell both devices because that makes more profit.
I don't know for sure.
I have been wondering about this topic because I have
been told that AFCI breakers will trip at the 30mA level
with ground faults, and I have indeed had to clear ground
faults in AFCI circuits, after which the circuit functioned
fine, so indeed did seem to have "ground fault functionality".
Apparently, not at the 5 mA level, e.g. I searched Square-D's
AFCI documentation:
http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Ci...-QOB Circuit Breakers/QO-AFI/48840-248-01.pdf
which explicitly says:
even though it goes on to say:
which is a big hint that it could trip on ground faults.
My total guess is that the "non-Class A" ground fault
functionality (perhaps because of not being 5mA,
perhaps because of other reasons of which I am unaware)
came for close to "free" in the AFCI device. Perhaps
it was more costly to make it trip at 5mA, or maybe
they wanted to keep separate products, I don't know.
So, that's my speculation, but I don't think you can take
it to the bank.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
CH had an AFCI/GFCI device for the branch circuit/feeder type AFCI but not sure if the have one for the combination AFCI.
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
we spoke about this at an IAEI meeting. there could be a problem called racing with the devices. it all depends on the circumstance. im probably wrong about this but i think a true ground fault of 4 - 6ma wont trip an afci but an arc to ground could possibly trip a gfci
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electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
it would work but who knows what will trip if an arc or ground fault happensChamuit said:
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
And my guess is that the GFP and not the fancy arc detection circuit does most of the work of the AFCI and is needed for it to do its job.
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