ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

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romeo

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The electrical inspector is calling a 6x6 timber supportung a remote w.p. panel at a swimming pool a separate structcure. He wants a ground rod as in NEC 250.32. He does not want the panel enclosure bonded to the #8 solid pool bonding conductor. Does anyone have an opinion?
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

Well, if a 6X6 supporting a panelboard is a structure than he is correct.
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

The #8 bonding conductor is for bonding everything in the pool together and is not required to be taken to the panelboard. If you run a 15 ampere circuit to the pool, bond the #14 grounding conductor to the #8 bonding wire via the device box. :D
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

I agree the inspector can require a grounding electrode system at the panelboard location based on the current definition and wording of the NEC. You will probably need two ground rods to meet the actual requirements.
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

Frank, 680.26(A) FPN states the panel's intent. "FPN: The 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor shall not be required to be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode."
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

charlie,

I understand the concept, I thought the Inspector did not want any bond,i.e. #14 EGC to be bonded to the #8,It seemed odd and that's what I was probing.

frank
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

That is sort of right. You don't run a #14 in this case to the #8 but you do bond the #8 to the enclosure. It is basically semantics but you don't run the small circuit conductor to the #8. :D
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

The WP panel isn't part of the circulation system or pool cover, so isn't it only required to be bonded if it is within 5' of the pool (and most people wouldn't put it there)?

So normally, you don't need to run the pool bonding grid #8 to the pool panel. However, it does get grounded/bonded to the electrical ground system indirectly because the pump motor bonding lug and equipment ground both connect to the same metal motor frame.
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

See the definition of the wrod "structure" in article 100, the see 250.32.

I'm not saying I agree with this, and I'm not saying I like it...I'm just saying what it says. :(
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

By Charlie: That is sort of right. You don't run a #14 in this case to the #8 but you do bond the #8 to the enclosure. It is basically semantics but you don't run the small circuit conductor to the #8.
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I do agree with what your saying but If the intent is not to require the bonding conductor to be connected to the EGC then why is it a requirment in 680.26(B)(4)?

Where a double-insulated water-pump motor is installed under the provisions of this rule, a solid 8 AWG copper conductor that is of sufficient length to make a bonding connection to a replacement motor shall be extended from the bonding grid to an accessible point in the motor vicinity. Where there is no connection between the swimming pool bonding grid and the equipment grounding system for the premises, this bonding conductor shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the motor circuit .
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Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

What I'm getting is it seems like that they want a connection somewhere between the two systems. And from what it sounds like is that if any piece of equipment that has the bonding conductor and a EGC run to it would meet the requirements of this? if there is no equipment that meets this then it is required to make a connection to the EGC of the pump circuit. Or I'm I getting cornfused again. :D


Where there is no connection between the swimming pool bonding grid and the equipment grounding system for the premises , this bonding conductor shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the motor circuit .
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Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

Wayne, you are not confused (if fact, I don't remember ever seeing you confused). The #8 is for equipotential bonding of all equipment, metal around the pool, etc. If the only power to the pool is to the pump motor, then the grounding conductor to the pump is to be tied to the #8. The #8 is not required to be taken back to the house.

The Code Making Panel realizes the possibility of a difference in potential between the equipotential bonding conductor and the premises grounding system. They want that connection to be made and it can be made by taking the #8 to the premises grounding system. However, it is only required to be made. The example I used is a #14 and that would be all that would be required. If you have a 20 ampere circuit then a #12 would be required. :D
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Ryan, are you saying you don't like the definition in general, or just in this circumstance?
I have thought about "structure", and it seems pretty solid to me. :) [/QB]
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I just don't like it in every circumstance. I was talking to one of the moderators about this just the other day, in fact. I like the definition, generally speaking, I just think it can get taken too far.
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

I just don't like it in every circumstance. I was talking to one of the moderators about this just the other day, in fact. I like the definition, generally speaking, I just think it can get taken too far
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Ryan,

I agree, the addition of the definition of a 'structure' has in some cases allowed it to be taken too far. I think that before it was added to the 2005 NEC, the articles that contained the word 'structure' needed to be reviewed to see how the definition would affect them. It's inclusion was a good idea but a prior review of it's effect should have been considered and the appropriate changes (if needed) should have been made.
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

Well, you're right it may be a large task but you're on record here as saying that it "can get taken too far" so other than a review of the articles that contain the word, what is the solution?
 
Re: ground rod for remote panel at swimming pool

I think the solution is to change the definition of "structure". Now, if someone will pick up the gauntlet and make a proposal to the 2008 NEC. :D
 
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