ground rod not needed at pool sub panel ?

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Stevenfyeager

Senior Member
Location
United States, Indiana
Occupation
electrical contractor
I'm sorry, I typed this in the search bar and it came up empty. I thought I had asked this on the forum. Recently, the electrical inspector says I don't need a ground bar at the pool panel 200 ' from the house because I am running 4 wires. But every other jurisdiction requires me to run 4 wires AND drive a ground rod for a sub panel separate the house (source). I asked him very clearly.
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Is it simply a panel fastened to a support such as a 6x6 or is it mounted on some type of structure ?
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Stevenfyeager said:
I'm sorry, I typed this in the search bar and it came up empty. I thought I had asked this on the forum. Recently, the electrical inspector says I don't need a ground bar at the pool panel 200 ' from the house because I am running 4 wires. But every other jurisdiction requires me to run 4 wires AND drive a ground rod for a sub panel separate the house (source). I asked him very clearly.
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If it's a structure it needs a grounding electrode system. Probably two rods in this case if it needs a GES.

It does not matter how many wires you run there. Structures require a GES with an exception for those served by a single branch circuit.

You don't need a ground BAR.
 
A

AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
wrong, but no harm will come of it. NOT suppose to say it that way but if he cool its not like its adding a safety factor lol. if this is a pool should have ground ring- if above ground should have the metal bonded. Either will do tremendously better than two stupid rods. No different Then a previous post about POCO requiring 1-rod when its Tied to A UFER, Just dump.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I thought that the GES requirement was when the panel was in a separate structure? Mounted to metal posts is a separate structure or a mounting system?
 
S

Stevenfyeager

Senior Member
Location
United States, Indiana
Occupation
electrical contractor
petersonra said:
If it's a structure it needs a grounding electrode system. Probably two rods in this case if it needs a GES.

It does not matter how many wires you run there. Structures require a GES with an exception for those served by a single branch circuit.

You don't need a ground BAR.
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My mistake. Typo ! I meant to say he said I do not need a ground rod (not bar )sorry
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
I think of it like this, if you need a grounding electrode system on a building that is a separate structure why would you not need one on a panel mounted on a pole.

What does a building have that would make a grounding electrode system to be required there but not at a pole? Why wouldn't it be required at a pole if a rod is required for protection from surges, etc.?
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Dennis Alwon said:
I think of it like this, if you need a grounding electrode system on a building that is a separate structure why would you not need one on a panel mounted on a pole.

What does a building have that would make a grounding electrode system to be required there but not at a pole? Why wouldn't it be required at a pole if a rod is required for protection from surges, etc.?
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I agree, but then why don't those words exist in the NEC.


AC\DC said:
look at definition of structure in 100
That which is built or constructed.
Constructed can mean pretty much anything but a natural tree lol.
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You left out a few words in the definition which is "other than equipment" (added in the 2017 NEC). A mounting system meets the Article 100 definition of equipment.
 
A

AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
does a ground rod really do what it suppose to
250.4(A) Grounded Systems.
(1) Electrical System Grounding. Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.
Informational Note No. 1: An important consideration for limiting the imposed voltage is the routing of bonding and grounding electrode conductors so that they are not any longer than necessary to complete the connection without disturbing the permanent parts of the installation and so that unnecessary bends and loops are avoided.

I can see for high voltage system but for resi I don't see how it can do anything. Earth reistance is two high for voltage sources around a residential even most Commerical for ground rods to do anything.

Line surges, helps but how much?

lighting, I saw mikes video on this, Seems like with system now all pex isolation from earth would be better so with a voltage gradient from lighting it would have no need to go through you home, if you had no point of contact with earth, such as no slap.
I see why you only want one point of contact with earth if you have a GE, But with everything isolated now days I don't see why a GE

I probably watched a video and just forgot, but those little rods just seem useless.
 
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infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
augie47 said:
If the panel is simply mounted to a post our inspectors would not require a rod.
I all boils down to "equipment" vs "structure" and how the AHJ views it
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I agree, but to the point that Dennis mentioned should it really matter what the panel is mounted to?
 
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