Ground rods for 320 dual lug service

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WV Sparktition

WV Sparktition

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Charleston, West Virginia
I have a dual lug 320 amp meter base, and i am feeding two 200 amp main breaker panels on the inside back wall. (less than 3 feet)

question is:

Our PoCo needs two ground rods for any service in addition to a cold water or other method. Does that mean i need 4 total ground rods or connect continuously through both panels that are side by side and then to 2 ground rods to save cost.

Also, since the panels would be 200 amp, can i still use #4 bare copper to ground it, or does it need to be rated for 320 amps?

We had talked about putting two main disconnects outside for ease of grounding, but no need to put them because we are less than 3 feet inside.
 
The NEC only requires #6 cu for ground rods, regardless of the service rating. Yes, one pair of rods is adequate for both panels.
 
LarryFine said:
The NEC only requires #6 cu for ground rods, regardless of the service rating. Yes, one pair of rods is adequate for both panels.
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Thank you Larry, our AHJ needs a #4 so we could jus continuosly go from one panel to another and then to the rods. Thanks, is there a Article or section stating this just in case our Inspector says no?
 
Thank you Larry, our AHJ needs a #4 so we could jus continuosly go from one panel to another and then to the ro
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It can be tricky to have the gec feed in and out of a panel and land in that panel without making a spice. You could use one of those lugs that attaches to the surface of the neutral bar, but you would lose some neutral spaces. Another options is to use gec taps per 250.64(D).
 
In the big house we finished recently, I ran the #6 uncut from rod #1 into the garage into disco #1, then into disco #2, and back outside to rod #2. I did this by folding the #6 into a U that would fit into the lug in each 200a disco.

The inspector first decided to fail the install, then reconsidered and passed it when I showed him that each disco had an unbroken (and unspliced) pathway to both rods. This also kept me from having to run the wire 6+ feet outside.
 
LarryFine said:
I showed him that each disco had an unbroken (and unspliced) pathway to both rods.
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It does not have to be unspliced from each disco.

As electrofelon pointed out.

250.64(D) Grounding Electrode Conductor Taps. Where a service consists of more than a single enclosure as permitted in 230.40, Exception No. 2, it shall be permitted to connect taps to the grounding electrode conductor. Each such tap conductor shall extend to the inside of each such enclosure. The grounding electrode conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.66, but the tap conductors shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with the grounding electrode conductors specified in 250.66 for the largest conductor serving the respective enclosures. The tap conductors shall be connected to the grounding electrode conductor in such a manner that the grounding electrode conductor remains without a splice.
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I did this by folding the #6 into a U that would fit into the lug in each 200a disco
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My practical side says that is fine.

The code side of me thinks that may be a listing violation.

If you call it 'one' conductor it is of unknown size.

If you call it two conductors than certainly the lug is not rated for two - 6 AWGS.

Yeah I know it will work, I just don't think it meets code.
 
all joking aside folding a wire in half and sticking it into a lug is just as bad as putting two wires under one lug if it aint rated for it you cannot do it

change out the single lug to a double lug and be done with it
 
OK i think i got it

OK i think i got it

So if i had one conductor between the ground rods and one panel, and then a tap conductor off the other to the other panel, connected with a split bolt? or other means, this would meet code?
 
I just got done doing a meter like this and the power company let me go to the meter with the ground rod wire. But again most power companies will have you go to you first disconnect.
Jim
 
I just got done doing a meter like this and the power company let me go to the meter with the ground rod wire. But again most power companies will have you go to you first disconnect.
Jim
 
As I see it if the metersocket has a lug for attachment of the gec, a #6 unbroken between the 2 groundrods terminated in the metersocket meets NEC requierments.

Am I right or wrong?
 
romeo said:
As I see it if the metersocket has a lug for attachment of the gec, a #6 unbroken between the 2 groundrods terminated in the metersocket meets NEC requierments.

Am I right or wrong?
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Right. Now, can you come to Va. and convince them to let us use the meter's lug?
 
I have to go with the folded CU is a violation of the listing for the lug.I know CH panels are rated for up to 3 of the same size grounding conductors up to #10 and I believe SQ D only rates there lugs for up to 2 conductors again up to #10.There was a time when all grounding conductors were passed when twisted and placed under 1 big lug but that was when NM was still stapled to the side of furring on a block wall.Wow thats showing my age :oops: I`ve been in Florida so long that when I read that pocos require the connection at the disconnect I shrug.We have always used the meter to make our connection and that is the only required connection no matter how many panels there are.
 
allenwayne said:
I have to go with the folded CU is a violation of the listing for the lug.I know CH panels are rated for up to 3 of the same size grounding conductors up to #10 and I believe SQ D only rates there lugs for up to 2 conductors again up to #10.There was a time when all grounding conductors were passed when twisted and placed under 1 big lug but that was when NM was still stapled to the side of furring on a block wall.Wow thats showing my age :oops: I`ve been in Florida so long that when I read that pocos require the connection at the disconnect I shrug.We have always used the meter to make our connection and that is the only required connection no matter how many panels there are.
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:D
Yeah, you must be at least 60 by now. If you live long enough, you can catch me in experience. Now If I could just catch some of you guys in knowledge. :)
 
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