Ground Rods

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daveselectric

Member
Location
Ohio
Is there anywhere in the code that would prohibit the use of 5/8" X 8' galvanized ground rods?

Is there anywhere in the code that allows the use?

The reason for the question is that a local AHJ is forbidding the use and insits on Copper [clad] ground rods.

Thanks

david
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Ground Rods

David,
See 250.52(A)(5)(b). The code permits the use of plain (unprotected) iron or steel ground rods and does not even require that they be listed.
 
R

rpmlube

Member
Re: Ground Rods

David remember that the code is only a starting place. My experience with the counties in Ohio is they will add their own rules to the code. Ask the inspector to see it in writing.
Bob
 
B

bill addiss

Senior Member
Re: Ground Rods

Mike,

Well ... Maybe Charlie can provide a slant on that. But anyway, here's the requirement:
7.1.4
All ground rods will be required to be minimum 1/2" x 8' copper weld or 5/8" x 8? copper plated only. No galvanized rods or piping will be accepted as a grounding electrode.
Click to expand...
There's quite a few other things they lay out for us too. Quote above from LIPA Red Book Ch. 7

Bill
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Ground Rods

Bill

7.1.9
All metallic components shall be bonded, including line and load conduits, meter sockets, and main switch using a minimum bond wire of #8 solid AWG or #8 stranded AWG green insulated copper. Green tape is acceptable, if applied over an insulated conductor. Bonding jumpers shall be used around concentric and eccentric knockouts. (Bonding does not apply to EMT containing SEU unless the EMT is physically connected to the meter pan, where a bonding bushing must be used.)

Here we are not allowed to bond on the line side of the meter.

I would think that the utilities would all be on the same page. Which is the correct?

Your guys are probably correct. Remember the black out started here in Ohio--- probably due to a bad bond to a ground rod! :D

Mike P.
 
charlie

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Ground Rods

In my opinion, the electric utility has complete control of the facilities on the line side of the service point, the service point itself, and everything in the meter fitting. I do not see how the electric utility can assume control of anything else. As Bill has pointed out, some obviously do assume control. :confused:

The only way I see for the electric utilities to control anything other than mentioned above would be at the behest of the local municipality.
 
B

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: Ground Rods

This is why I feel the service point is where the service conductors change from supply to load. This does not happen at the meter. It is at the first overcurrent device or devices.

I can see where the utility would regard the meter as service point, but that is not where the conductor changes ID.
 
B

bill addiss

Senior Member
Re: Ground Rods

Mike,

The section you quoted has been relaxed over previous regulations. Before this they would only accept #8 or larger Green Insulated Solid Copper for the Bonding Jumpers. No Stranded and No Green Tape allowed either. This was when most everyone changed to PVC conduits because #8 solid Green was just not readily available.

BTW, "Our" Meter Enclosures must have separate bonding lugs for these jumpers. This, and other modifications are what drove our meterpan prices up so high.

Bill
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: Ground Rods

A lot of inspectors want to see that listing bug on the daylighted end of the ground rod. Maybe it's their way of "insuring" that you drove the rod to full depth. Sometimes a rogue installer will drive a rod to refusal and then lop off the undriven portion of the rod. This might mean that only six-feet was actually driven. Unless the inspector was there when you drove the rod how is s/he going to know if it penetrates the earth by 8-inches or eight-feet?
 
ryan_618

ryan_618

Senior Member
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Ground Rods

Wayne, I never want to see the listing bug on a ground rod. Hopefully after smacking down 8' the listing is not visible any longer. I try to ensure length by removing the clamp and pulling on the rod. Lots of times I have pulled up 2'-6' rods.

Of course the bad part of my method is when you pull it up and it is 8' then I have to pound it back in :eek:
 
B

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: Ground Rods

Ryan: Pull 8 foot rods? You must be very strong.

I have had to use a backhoe to pull them.
 
M

monkey

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
Re: Ground Rods

ryan,
I'd be willing to bet a weeks pay you'd never pull up a ground rod here in Tucson, Arizona. And if you could, I'd just call you "Sir". :D
Brian
 
brian john

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
Re: Ground Rods

When we do earth/ground resistance test we utilize test electrodes that are 12 to 24 inches long, often we end up abandoning the test rods as we can't pull them out. Depends on the fill, I have seen 8 foot rods removed from clay, with channel locks twisting and pulling..
 
B

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: Ground Rods

When I was working in Antarctica, at the research stations, I noticed that the depth of an object in the ice cap increased the pressure against the object.

The Siple Station, settled in ice at the rate of 14 feet per year. After 7 years the Station would be unsafe, and was soon crushed by the pressure of the ice. Someday the building would appear in an iceberg.

I know that depth has a lot to do with the resistance of the earth/electrode connection.

I am curious; do short rods produce a real measurement of resistance?
 
K

karl riley

Senior Member
Re: Ground Rods

I am interested in the answer to Bennie's question. Last week I did a series of tests using an 18" copper pipe (1/2"). Ran a hot from an extension cord to a clamp on the pipe. Got a maximum of 74 mA to flow.

The purpose was to bring the pipe closer to my ground rod at the building by 5' increments and see what influence distance had. I wondered about the validity of the 18" depth.

I solved the problem of having to pull up the pipe each time by using a lever. I drilled a hole through the pipe at 20", ran a bolt through the pipe and through a 2X3 near one end. All I had to do was lift gently on the long end of the 2X3 to ease the pipe out. Some spots I never would have gotten it out pulling directly up.

Karl
 
F

flightline

Senior Member
Re: Ground Rods

At the airport, standard spec for years is 3/4" x 10' 300 series stainless steel, so I don't know if the obstinate AHJ that david has would like those either. We test all the air side ground rods on a regular basis since they are part of the static grounding system used during aircraft fueling.

As an inspector myself, we are looking at the previously accepted practice, [before we came along], of putting a rod in a concrete pier for a light pole. Depending on the depth of the excavation and the projection of the base above grade, you generally have very little rod in contact with undisturbed soil.

Some time ago, Mike Holt's newsletter spoke to galvanized ground rods, and provided the following link: Galvan Ground Rods

[ October 04, 2003, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: flightline ]
 
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