Ground wire crimp sleeves. Steel or copper?

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olly

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Master Electrician
I believe you need a special crimp tool (made specifically for crimp sleeves) for copper crimp sleeves and steel crimp sleeve can be crimped with any crimp tool. Is that correct? Which tool do you recommend? The ideal buchanan? Its $65
 
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Ideal bought out Buchanan a while back. They still have the Buchanan crimper but Ideal has one but is totally different. Instead of a 4-point crimp, the Ideal just uses a single crimp. There is a slot in the crimpers for small crimps and one for large crimps. I had an inspector call me on that when he saw my grounds that were crimped by the Ideal. He was going to make me redo the crimps but luckily I had the package that the crimps came in showing they were Ideal crimps. I also had the pack the crimpers came in that said on it "for use on any of the Ideal crimp sleeves". He didn't like it because the crimp "didn't look like the old way", but he had to let it go as it was legal.
I can't speak to the steel ones.
But most of the other inspectors don't care as long as the crimp is solid. Some just use strippers or Linemans to crimp with.
 
ActionDave said:
I just use wire nuts. I know there is some special buchannan tool out there but I've never seen one on a job.
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Stupid question I guess because I know in commercial applications grounds are just wire nutted. You don't have to use crimp sleeves or those green wire nuts in residential right? You can just wire nut the grounds and pigtail it
 
Little Bill said:
Ideal bought out Buchanan a while back. They still have the Buchanan crimper but Ideal has one but is totally different. Instead of a 4-point crimp, the Ideal just uses a single crimp. There is a slot in the crimpers for small crimps and one for large crimps. I had an inspector call me on that when he saw my grounds that were crimped by the Ideal. He was going to make me redo the crimps but luckily I had the package that the crimps came in showing they were Ideal crimps. I also had the pack the crimpers came in that said on it "for use on any of the Ideal crimp sleeves". He didn't like it because the crimp "didn't look like the old way", but he had to let it go as it was legal.
I can't speak to the steel ones.
But most of the other inspectors don't care as long as the crimp is solid. Some just use strippers or Linemans to crimp with.
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Yeah, Its a State inspection, they are notorious to be nit picky. Thats why I'm checking
 
olly said:
Stupid question I guess because I know in commercial applications grounds are just wire nutted. You don't have to use crimp sleeves or those green wire nuts in residential right? You can just wire nut the grounds and pigtail it
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Yes, you can use wire nuts. Everyone gets used to seeing crimps in residential but it's never been required.
 
I have a Buchanan 4 point crimper with the copper sleeves and I never use it. The only real advantage I can see is that the crimp takes up less space in the box. I just use a greenie or some other wire nut.
 
infinity said:
I have a Buchanan 4 point crimper with the copper sleeves and I never use it. The only real advantage I can see is that the crimp takes up less space in the box. I just use a greenie or some other wire nut.
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There was a period that I leaned towards wirenuts but eventually went back to the space saving provided by Buchanan splice sleeves for grounds, usually just within switch boxes otherwise I use the green wirenut.
 
olly said:
Stupid question I guess because I know in commercial applications grounds are just wire nutted. You don't have to use crimp sleeves or those green wire nuts in residential right? You can just wire nut the grounds and pigtail it
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Around here if you don't use the green ones or the crimps you'll be doing it again....
 
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roger said:
How are they justifying that?

Roger
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Roger, I've been out of the field for a long time and I never did a huge amount of residential.
When I had an inspector tell me I couldn't use solder on mechanically secure (twisted) grounds because if the joint got hot the solder could melt
( I know it's against code too) but I could still solder hots and neutrals legally. SMH
I was told it was because regular wire nuts were not listed for grounding, go figure......
 
It's amazing what some inspectors and AHJ's are led to believe and then fall for it.

Roger
 
qcroanoke said:
Roger, I've been out of the field for a long time and I never did a huge amount of residential.
When I had an inspector tell me I couldn't use solder on mechanically secure (twisted) grounds because if the joint got hot the solder could melt
( I know it's against code too) but I could still solder hots and neutrals legally. SMH
I was told it was because regular wire nuts were not listed for grounding, go figure......
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When something is required to be listed for grounding it means for use on grounding electrodes/conductors not equipment grounding.

When you bond a metal outlet/device box with a 10-32 screw you can use any screw - those green ones you purchase are convenient and may or may not be listed but you can use any screw that meets thread requirements.

When you splice a grounding electrode conductor you must use splicing component that is irreversible and also is listed for grounding.
 
qcroanoke said:
round here if you don't use the green ones or the crimps you'll be doing it again....
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There are some dopey inspectors out there although I have heard this before elsewhere. They something like the green wire nut is rated for the fault current but isn't the same amount of fault current on the red wire nut on the hot leg? :slaphead:
 
Where on Earth does this stuff come from.....I think we need a new law:. No conversation allowed at the supply house counter while waiting for your order to be picked ;)

IMO the fastest way is a wirenut spun on with a drill. Also, I get a repetitive use injury if I spin too many wire nuts by hand.
 
I’ll admit it is a little more pain but a good set of dikes going at the splice long ways with tip of cutters seems to split them open nicely without to much damage to conductors. The copper ones anyhow.
 
electrofelon said:
Where on Earth does this stuff come from.....I think we need a new law:. No conversation allowed at the supply house counter while waiting for your order to be picked ;)

IMO the fastest way is a wirenut spun on with a drill. Also, I get a repetitive use injury if I spin too many wire nuts by hand.
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Fastest is Wago's or similar - but some don't think they are good enough for the job, IDK for certain - haven't run into failures of them yet, but they haven't been around long enough to say either way either IMO.

Inspectors shouldn't make up their own rules either. If something is listed and used according to the listing, too bad if they don't like it their job is to enforce the code as written/amended (by the authority they work for) and not to make up their own rules. Installers and designers can specify use of certain items, but inspector needs to accept things that are designed for the purpose or otherwise specifically permitted in code.
 
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