GROUND WIRE ON SUB PANEL NEUTRAL BAR .

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Sparkeyl3

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Hello everyone I am new to this site I am a Local#3 electrician working in Manhattan .I HAVE A QUEATION IF ANYONE CAN HELP .I HAVE A 240 VOLT 3 WIRE STEAM TABLE BEING FED FROM A 240 VOLT SUB PANEL .SUB PANEL IS BEING FED WOTH 2HOT LEGS AND A NEUTRAL NO GROUND THE GROUND WIRE FROM THE STEAM TABLE WAS CONNECTED TO THE NEUTRAL BAR .DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THIS IS OK .THE STEAM TABLE HAS A CORD AND IS PLUGED INTO A 240 V 3 WIRE RECEPRACLE .THANK YOU ALL FOR ANY HELP
 
If the sup panel has no ground then I suspect the raceway is the equipment grounding conductor. The equipment grounding conductor of the steamer should not be connected to a neutral bar. There should be a separate bar attached to the panel case.

Now if this is a panel in a separate structure then it may be compliant under the old rules
 
Thank you when I arrived here the ground wire from the steam table was connected down on the neutral bar at sub panel .People were complaining of random shocks .Also what do u mean by separate structure .Thank you
 
Sparkeyl3 said:
Thank you when I arrived here the ground wire from the steam table was connected down on the neutral bar at sub panel .People were complaining of random shocks .Also what do u mean by separate structure .Thank you
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also I forgot to mention that in the sub panel the neutral bar is not isolated from the egc.It is screwed right to panel
 
Don't think it was ever Code acceptable, but it was not uncommon in some older buildings for a sub-panel not to have the equipment ground and the grounded (neutral) conductor not separated with the result being what you are experiencing..
If you can confirm a suitable grounding return path by a 250.,118 wiring method or conductor the neutral should be isolated from the equipment grounds.
In regard to a "separate structure", it is a exactly what the name states, a seperate "building" most commonly (but not necessarily) a entirely independent structure detached from the other buildings,. Earlier Codes allowed the detached building to have a combination grounded/grounding conductor for the supply. It is not longer allowed on other than existing installations.
 
augie47 said:
Don't think it was ever Code acceptable, but it was not uncommon in some older buildings for a sub-panel not to have the equipment ground and the grounded (neutral) conductor not separated with the result being what you are experiencing..
If you can confirm a suitable grounding return path by a 250.,118 wiring method or conductor the neutral should be isolated from the equipment grounds.
In regard to a "separate structure", it is a exactly what the name states, a seperate "building" most commonly (but not necessarily) a entirely independent structure detached from the other buildings,. Earlier Codes allowed the detached building to have a combination grounded/grounding conductor for the supply. It is not longer allowed on other than existing installations.
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Yes thank you the sub panel is in same building I will order insulated neutral bar and I stall in panel and also use existing bar as ground bar .
 
Sparkeyl3 said:
Yes thank you the sub panel is in same building I will order insulated neutral bar and I stall in panel and also use existing bar as ground bar .
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One more thing so it is definitely a bad and dangerous installation if the ground wire from the steamer gets connected back to neutral bar in sub panel correct
 
Sparkeyl3 said:
Thank you when I arrived here the ground wire from the steam table was connected down on the neutral bar at sub panel .People were complaining of random shocks .Also what do u mean by separate structure .Thank you
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Would the neutral and ground tied together at the subpanel explain the random shocks? I am assuming that this is an existing installation. How long have the shocks been happening? How long has the neutral and ground been tied together? You may have another problem.

With the machine unplugged have you ohm/megged out the ungrounded conductors to ground? It sounds like you have an unintended path to ground.
 
Saturn_Europa said:
Would the neutral and ground tied together at the subpanel explain the random shocks? I am assuming that this is an existing installation. How long have the shocks been happening? How long has the neutral and ground been tied together? You may have another problem.

With the machine unplugged have you ohm/megged out the ungrounded conductors to ground? It sounds like you have an unintended path to ground.
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Sounds more to me like some resistance in the neutral supplying the subpanel, and connecting several metal objects to that point just leaves them sitting there at a potential above objects that are at ground potential. Could just be voltage drop in the neutral or a bad connection or a little of both.
 
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