Grounded Generator with disconnects far from house & transfer switch inside house with discos outside

[Moosifer]

Probably not as complicated as I think it is but I could use some help with this.
Customer will have a 400a single phase 120/240v generator a few hundred feet from the house.
Inspector wants a separate grounding means at generator.
Transfer switch is inside the house so there will be 2qty additional generator feed 200a breaker disconnects at the house.
Utility feed to the transfer switch will have 2qty 200a breaker disconnects bonded and grounded outside of the house to the ground rods.
Transfer switch will NOT have neutral and ground bonded since it will not be 1st means of disconnect for utility feed.
*Are the ground and neutral to be bonded at the generator to make a separately derived system requiring a switched neutral in the transfer switch?
*Is it ok when the house is connected to house ground rods & generator ground rods 200ft away?
*I would assume I still run a ground wire from the generator to the transfer switch which now connects both sets of ground rods...?
*Is the ground from the generator to the transfer switch to be grounded and bonded again at the disconnects right outside of the house and to the house ground rods before it goes into the house or are the disconnects at the generator considered the first means of disconnect?
Thank you for the help!

 

[augie47]

Since the ATS does not switch the neutral it is NOT a SDS. There should be an EGC run with the generator circuit and if the inspector wants ground rods you could drive them and bond them to the EGC.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Ground rods are to be installed at one place only, the main service where the neutral-ground bond is also placed.

A ground rod at the generator serves no purpose.

 

[AdamTeeScott]

Ground rods are to be installed at one place only, the main service where the neutral-ground bond is also placed.

A ground rod at the generator serves no purpose.

Code ref to back this up? I've been asked to do the same thing before by an inspector bc I was under the same belief as you. In that case, it was also 200+ feet away.

 

[augie47]

Ground rods are to be installed at one place only, the main service where the neutral-ground bond is also placed.

A ground rod at the generator serves no purpose.

Disagree......Supplemental ground rods are allowed, in fact, if the generator was in a structure they would be required. In this case not required but no harm in being there. If you wan to fight the call on principal feel free.
(depending on your thoughts on ground rods the added once may or may not be ridiculous)

 

[jaggedben]

Supplemental ground rods are allowed, in fact, if the generator was in a structure they would be required. In this case not required but no harm in being there. If you wan to fight the call on principal feel free.
(depending on your thoughts on ground rods the added once may or may not be ridiculous)

Unless the generator is just sitting on the ground then arguably the rods are required. Definition of a structure is really broad.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Ground rods are to be installed at one place only, the main service where the neutral-ground bond is also placed.

A ground rod at the generator serves no purpose.

You can install as many grounding electrodes at as many places as you want to. The only thing that must only be in one place is the connection to the grounded conductor. Additional grounding electrodes can be connected to the equipment grounding conductor.

 

[Moosifer]

Supplemental ground rods are allowed, in fact, if the generator was in a structure they would be required. In this case not required but no harm in being there. If you wan to fight the call on principal feel free.
(depending on your thoughts on ground rods the added once may or may not be ridiculous)

Thank you, Not switching neutral - I guess this is fine at 200ft away residential per Generac. I will not treat it as a separately derived system. I will drive a ground rod at the generator and put it to the chassis ground lug.
I appreciate all of the help.

 

[shortcircuit2]

I heard some local jurisdictions in Florida want grounds rods at generators given it is the lightning capitol of the USA?

 

[hillbilly1]

Disagree......Supplemental ground rods are allowed, in fact, if the generator was in a structure they would be required. In this case not required but no harm in being there. If you wan to fight the call on principal feel free.
(depending on your thoughts on ground rods the added once may or may not be ridiculous)

I think North Carolina considers the generator enclosure to be a structure, along with pole lights! LOL! If I remember correctly, Generac calls for a ground rod in their installation instructions connected to a lug on the enclosure.

 

[shortcircuit2]

Starting 2020 "equipment" is not a structure per the definition

 

[Birken Vogt]

I did not think through my statement. Yes I know ground rods are to be installed at remote buildings and whatever.

What I should have said is, their MAIN purpose is to be installed at the same place as the first disco and the N-G bond place, all of them together.

They serve no purpose at a non-SDS genset, and may actually invite trouble.

 

[electrofelon]

The only thing that must only be in one place is the connection to the grounded conductor. Additional grounding electrodes can be connected to the equipment grounding conductor.

Not sure I follow you here Don. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I can have multiple GEC's connected to the grounded conductor at various places anywhere from the service point to the first disconnecting means.

 

[ActionDave]

Not sure I follow you here Don. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I can have multiple GEC's connected to the grounded conductor at various places anywhere from the service point to the first disconnecting means.

I think he's talking about the main bonding jumper.

 

[hillbilly1]

Not sure I follow you here Don. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. I can have multiple GEC's connected to the grounded conductor at various places anywhere from the service point to the first disconnecting means.

He’s talking about anywhere past the service disconnect, additional GEC’s can be connected to the egc, not the grounded conductor.