Grounding control panel

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mcolson1590

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I have a piece of equipment that is routinely welded on for repairs. This equipment has a control panel on it that is connected to ground. All repairs take place while power is off. We have seen a PLC and HMI both fry in the panel and believe it may have been caused during a weld. I was wondering if we should isolate the panel from ground when performing repairs. To do so I would need to use rubber isolators for mounting and a cable for the bond to the equipment. I was then thinking we could remove the bond whenever repairs are performed. I would like to not have to do this but am looking for additional input.
 
I have a piece of equipment that is routinely welded on for repairs. This equipment has a control panel on it that is connected to ground. All repairs take place while power is off. We have seen a PLC and HMI both fry in the panel and believe it may have been caused during a weld. I was wondering if we should isolate the panel from ground when performing repairs. To do so I would need to use rubber isolators for mounting and a cable for the bond to the equipment. I was then thinking we could remove the bond whenever repairs are performed. I would like to not have to do this but am looking for additional input.
1. If the welder connects his return (not ground) clamp of his welding machine to the metal being welded (or a tightly connected part of the structure) then there should not be a problem.
2. If the welder clamps to "ground" then he can cause a lot of damage by requiring the full welding current to flow through the EGC or GEC. In that case if you isolate the equipment from "ground" the welder will be forced to find a different place for his clamp. But he may still make a poor choice (see 3. below).
3. If the welder clamps to some other part of the equipment which has a poor connection to the part being welded, then some of the current may still end up flowing through EGC wiring in the panel. Removing the EGC and auxiliary electrode (see the MH video on that subject!) connection(s) of the equipment will not gain you anything at all.
 
... If the welder clamps to "ground" then he can cause a lot of damage by requiring the full welding current to flow through the EGC or GEC. ...
I agree it is a bad practice, but I have to wonder if it's because the current flows through the EGC or GEC. How would that damage the equipment? Consider this: a lot of electronic equipment have filtering and/or surge protection connected to its supply ground. Could the welding current find its way back through the filtering and/or surge protection to the normally-energized side of the circuitry then return to ground through its grounded supply conductor?
 
I agree it is a bad practice, but I have to wonder if it's because the current flows through the EGC or GEC. How would that damage the equipment? Consider this: a lot of electronic equipment have filtering and/or surge protection connected to its supply ground. Could the welding current find its way back through the filtering and/or surge protection to the normally-energized side of the circuitry then return to ground through its grounded supply conductor?
The most common damage mode will be when "grounded" inputs or outputs of the PLC are suddenly at significantly different voltages. A protector from the power supply input of the PLC to ground will not protect any other terminals.

If the cabinet ground goes one way and the sensor ground goes another way, the smoke will find a way out.
Just having sensors, one side of which is grounded for "protection", attached to different parts of the machine and coming back to the same PLC can do the job too.

Many PLCs will include protection diodes or other safeguards on their inputs and outputs, but they will not handle the level of current a welder can generate.

There may be other reasons too, but there are so many other ways that an improper welding return connection can damage even mechanical components that proper procedure is critical. (One example is welding current going through the bearings of a dovetail slide. :()

You are absolutely right that the damage mechanism need not be related specifically to EGC or GEC current. But that is one source for ground voltage differentials.
 
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