Grounding>Earthing new forum title

[tom baker]

There is much confusion on grounding and bonding. We as a trade most often use grounding when we mean bonding. The 08 NEC has a great definition of ground.
It would much clearer if we said earthing when we mean grounding. The if someone says you need to run a ground wire, it would be you need to run an earth wire.

So my proposal is change the title of the this forum to Earthing versus Bonding.

 

[chris kennedy]

It would much clearer if we said earthing when we mean grounding.

I don't know. This section in the 08 is still:


VI. Equipment Grounding and Equipment Grounding Conductors

 

[SEO]

Europe refers to grounding as earthing.

 

[LLSolutions]

I can see the reasoning behind the suggestion but i feel that any topics should parallel the current NEC. As for a change to the 2011 I see it reasonable

 

[resistance]

Europe refers to grounding as earthing.

Maybe this is a reason to keep it the way it (forum) is

 

[don_resqcapt19]

We don't need a new term (earthing). We and the code just need to call grounding grounding and bonding bonding. If it doesn't directly connect to a grounding electrode it is not a grounding conductor. I know...this idea was rejected in 2005 when I proposed it, but I still believe it is the way the code should go.

 

[LarryFine]

The if someone says you need to run a ground wire, it would be you need to run an earth wire.

Do we have to wear Earth shoes while doing it?

 

[ctmike]

Europe refers to grounding as earthing.

if europe jumped off the empire state building would you

 

[George Stolz]

...I still believe it is the way the code should go.

I agree. Did you try again this cycle? I didn't touch it.

 

[stickboy1375]

I dont think it matters what you call it, getting everyone to know the difference is the real problem.

 

[tom baker]

I agree with Don 100% and I agree with his proposal to change EGC to EBC.
There were a number of good changes in Art 250 for 08. Lets watch what happens in 11. Perhaps we'll have an opportunity to all make a comment on a proposal.

Anyway in the future I will use earthing when its grounding.

 

[quogueelectric]

Do we have to wear Earth shoes while doing it?

Well that statement certainly dates you back to the early 70's

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I agree. Did you try again this cycle? I didn't touch it.

No. With the changes in 2008 from the task force I didn't think that they would really take another look at this proposal.
The idea was passed by a majority of panel 5 last time, but one vote short of the 2/3s majority that the NFPA requires. Had CMP5 accepted it, it would have changed the whole code as they have the main control of all grounding and bonding rules.

 

[brian john]

There is much confusion on grounding and bonding. We as a trade most often use grounding when we mean bonding. The 08 NEC has a great definition of ground.
It would much clearer if we said earthing when we mean grounding. The if someone says you need to run a ground wire, it would be you need to run an earth wire.

So my proposal is change the title of the this forum to Earthing versus Bonding.

I have been behind this change for years.


I BELIEVE it would simplify the understanding of grounding (for some).

 

[SEO]

if europe jumped off the empire state building would you

No! I don't like the term earthing either.

 

[peter d]

I dont think it matters what you call it, getting everyone to know the difference is the real problem.

I agree. The problem that I see is that many electricians do not understand they basic principles of bonding and grounding, and why we ground and why we bond. I'm sure many of use are aware that the trade myths surrounding ground rods are still alive and well.

Simply changing the names is a good start, but it's just window dressing until electricians are truly educated on grounding and bonding.

 

[wbalsam1]

I agree. The problem that I see is that many electricians do not understand they basic principles of bonding and grounding, and why we ground and why we bond. .........
..........
Simply changing the names is a good start, but it's just window dressing until electricians are truly educated on grounding and bonding.

probably no truer words were ever spoken in this forum. I presented a code show last night for around 75 electricians/electrical contractors and had to interrupt my lesson plan and actually run another presentation on earthing and bonding in order to get about 6 or 7 of the attendees up to speed to be able to comprehend 250-32.
I was "shocked" (pardon the pun) at the lack of understanding in this regard.

 

[tom baker]

I can see the reasoning behind the suggestion but i feel that any topics should parallel the current NEC. As for a change to the 2011 I see it reasonable

But Mike changed the topic title to Grounding versus Bonding at my suggestion...

 

[tom baker]

See this post and my reply:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?p=953433&posted=1#post953433
We misuse the term grounding.

 

[LLSolutions]

But Mike changed the topic title to Grounding versus Bonding at my suggestion...

I understand that, but to just start using earthing instead of grounding in a sentence seems like it would add more confusion. I do like the term earthing; seems easier to draw a picture in your mind. Like I said, I would support a code change for 11, the new language with the NEC using the term neutral and neutral point will help clear some confusion around "ground" and "grounded" and getting "earthing" in there will clear some more fog.