Grounding electrode conductor

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hhsting

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I have incoming service into trough. The trough taps to three service disconnects. Two are next to trough however third is fire pump service disconnect/ats/controller located 100 feet away.

The grounding is at trough as per NEC 250.64(D). Service conductors with GEC is routed in conduit within 2 inch concrete encased from trough to the fire pump service disco/ats/controller all in one.

Inspector flagged saying GEC cannot be in same conduit as service conductors.


Can you place grounding electrode conductor in same conduit with service conductors?

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I'm not aware of a Code Section prohibiting it but you would need to meetb the requirements of 250.64(E).
Ask the inspector for a Code reference.
 
hhsting said:
I have incoming service into trough. The trough taps to three service disconnects. Two are next to trough however third is fire pump service disconnect/ats/controller located 100 feet away.

The grounding is at trough as per NEC 250.64(D). Service conductors with GEC is routed in conduit within 2 inch concrete encased from trough to the fire pump service disco/ats/controller all in one.

Inspector flagged saying GEC cannot be in same conduit as service conductors.


Can you place grounding electrode conductor in same conduit with service conductors?

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The GEC can be in the same raceway as service conductors.


230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable. Conductors
other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same
service raceway or service cable in which the service conductors
are installed.

Exception No. 1: Grounding electrode conductors or supply side bonding
jumpers or conductors shall be permitted within service raceways.
 
Is their maximum distance to GEC? I have GES thats 100 feet away and taking GE from the GES to fire pump Ats/controller/breaker all in one ground bar inside building.
 
hhsting said:
I have incoming service into trough. The trough taps to three service disconnects. Two are next to trough however third is fire pump service disconnect/ats/controller located 100 feet away.

The grounding is at trough as per NEC 250.64(D). Service conductors with GEC is routed in conduit within 2 inch concrete encased from trough to the fire pump service disco/ats/controller all in one.

Inspector flagged saying GEC cannot be in same conduit as service conductors.


Can you place grounding electrode conductor in same conduit with service conductors?

Sent from my SM-G935U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
(D)(1), (D)(2), or (D)(3)?

If done per (D)(3) your grounded service conductors should all tie together somehow in the trough and you only need one GEC to leave that trough.

But as mentioned nothing prohibits a GEC in raceway with service conductors.
 
kwired said:
(D)(1), (D)(2), or (D)(3)?

If done per (D)(3) your grounded service conductors should all tie together somehow in the trough and you only need one GEC to leave that trough.

But as mentioned nothing prohibits a GEC in raceway with service conductors.
Click to expand...

Assuming it is per NEC 2014 250.64(d)(3) and I have both ground bar and neutral bar in trough and ground bar has GEC to GES and neutral to ground bond in trough then does code say to bring supply side bonding jumper and neutral from trough to service disconnect of fire pump/ats/controller/breaker all in one or would you have neutral brought to the service disconnect and no supply side bonding jumper in raceway?
 
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If your trough is bonded to the neutral properly then there's no need for a supply-side bonding jumper between the trough and the service disconnects. You said the trough has separate ground and neutral bars; you bond them to each other with a supply side bonding jumper. GEC should go on the neutral bar there. Also install a main bonding jumper in each service disconnect. Done.
 
jaggedben said:
If your trough is bonded to the neutral properly then there's no need for a supply-side bonding jumper between the trough and the service disconnects. You said the trough has separate ground and neutral bars; you bond them to each other with a supply side bonding jumper. GEC should go on the neutral bar there. Also install a main bonding jumper in each service disconnect. Done.
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So NEC 250.64(D)(3) says GEC in wireway or other enclosure on supply side of service disconnect means that is accessible.

I am wondering can the other enclosure be in service equipment that is suitable for service equipment such as switchboard enlcosure line side of service disconnect means compartment?

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hhsting said:
So NEC 250.64(D)(3) says GEC in wireway or other enclosure on supply side of service disconnect means that is accessible.

I am wondering can the other enclosure be in service equipment that is suitable for service equipment such as switchboard enlcosure line side of service disconnect means compartment?

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Not sure if I was clear enough. Instead of trough lets you have service switchboard with four sections. Two sections have two service disconnects, third sections have feeder breakers fed from service discos and fourth section has incoming service with ground bar and neutral bar and bond to switchboard enclosure. The switchboard neutral bar has GEC to GES.

Would NEC 2014 Article 250.64(d)(3) other enclosures allow above and the third service disconnect that is 100 feet for fire pump/ats/contoller/breaker to just pull neutral and have main bonding jumper at fp all in one breaker? Treat it just like wireway multiple service disco.
 
disconnects not grouped together

disconnects not grouped together

Service disconnects are usually grouped together? The third disconnect is 100 feet?
 
I agree. As long as your GEC is connected ahead of the service disconnects, there is no need to pull it to the FP disconnect.
 
supply side of service disconnecting means you bond equipment to the grounded conductor. This is not the main bonding jumper, that is located at the service disconnecting means. With multiple service disconnects in separate enclosures there will be one main bonding jumper at each disconnect. A switchboard with multiple service disconnects is one assembly and is listed, but there is likely only one main bonding jumper in it.

IMO the fire pump service disconnect doesn't need a separate GEC if it is tapped from the regular service conductors, if it has separate service conductors run to it then it would need it's own GEC, it still needs to tie into a common GES for the building though.
 
kwired said:
supply side of service disconnecting means you bond equipment to the grounded conductor. This is not the main bonding jumper, that is located at the service disconnecting means. With multiple service disconnects in separate enclosures there will be one main bonding jumper at each disconnect. A switchboard with multiple service disconnects is one assembly and is listed, but there is likely only one main bonding jumper in it.

IMO the fire pump service disconnect doesn't need a separate GEC if it is tapped from the regular service conductors, if it has separate service conductors run to it then it would need it's own GEC, it still needs to tie into a common GES for the building though.
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I have fire pump controller tapped ahead of service disco in swbd enlcosure. They then route inside the building.

I always thought service conductors come from utility but the conductors I have are tapped ahead of swbd service disco in swbd enclosure. They come from tap ahead of service disco. Not sure what you would call them swrvice entrace condictors.

The tapped conductors from ahead of service disco are they service conductors bound by rule of 695.6(A)(1)?
 
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hhsting said:
I have fire pump controller tapped ahead of service disco in swbd enlcosure. They then route inside the building.

I always thought service conductors come from utility but the conductors I have are tapped ahead of swbd service disco in swbd enclosure. They come from tap ahead of service disco. Not sure what you would call them swrvice entrace condictors.

The tapped conductors from ahead of service disco are they service conductors bound by rule of 695.6(A)(1)?
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They are still ahead of service disconnecting means - which means they are still service conductors - and the reason you encased them in 2" of concrete, there is no overcurrent protection on them.

They are already at/in the building though, you can connect the GEC to any point ahead of the service disconnect(s) in/at the building. IMO you only need to run a GEC to the switchboard enclosure, is no different than running it to a meter socket, CT cabinet or other common point and then having multiple nipples into the building to service disconnecting means. Only difference here is the fire pump service disconnect has requirement to not be grouped with the other service disconnecting means.
 
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