Hello. Can an grounding electro conductor be in the same raceway (PVC) as the 4 wire feeder. Basically I’m installing a meter/ main combo outside and need to run a feeder to the exciting panel. This installation will be in an attic so in order for us to get the GEC to this panel can we use the same PVC. Thanks
Grounding Electrode Conductor
- Thread starter Silky1
- Start date
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I believe that's okay.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Yes it can be run in the same raceway but why do you need to run a GEC to a sub-panel?
Greentagger
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
- Occupation
- Master Electrician, Electrical Inspector
I agree too. Might have other requirements if ferrous raceway.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Yes ferrous means more hoops to jump through. He did mention he's running PVC.
TX+ MASTER#4544
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
- Occupation
- electrical Code instructor and mentor
2023 NEC
Have you checked the definition of a GEC, (grounding electrode conductor) in your Code book?
And the definition of an EGC?
The GEC does not terminate in your sub panel.
Do you instead, mean, an EGC (equipment grounding conductor) in your PVC?
I think that is what you meant to say. So, watch your language.
There is a big difference in the two conductors. Each one is for a very particular reason.
TX+MASTER#4544
Greentagger
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
- Occupation
- Master Electrician, Electrical Inspector
Actually a GEC is required at a sub panel at a detached structure if it is the disconnecting means required per 225.31. Although the GES should originate at detached structure. 250.32.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Unless it's 3 phase I believe he meant GEC. He said a GEC with a 4 wire feeder. A single phase, 4 wire feeder would already have an EGC.
You are correct but he mentioned an attic so I'm not seeing a separate structure here.
Eddie702
Licensed Electrician
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
- Occupation
- Electrician
Guessing that the existing panel is in the house, and he is putting a meter main outside and running a feeder into the existing panel where the GEC is. He wants to use the feeder pipe to get the GEC from the house to the meter main.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
You don't need a grounding electrode conductor in the sub panel. Are you thinking of splicing an existing grounding electrode conductor that is in the sub panel?
Correct I would like to use the PVC pipe that comes from the meter/ main to inside the house so when I’m done there would be a 4 wire feeder to the existing panel and a GEC to the meter/ main.
Eddie702
Licensed Electrician
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
- Occupation
- Electrician
Assuming you are running a new GEC from the water pipe or other electrode(s) and not splicing the existing one at the existing panel location it should be ok.
I can't think of any code reason you can't do this, but it seems unusual. Any reason you couldn't just run the GEC indoors following the PVC pipe with the feeder and then sleeving the GEC in Pvc where it exits the house to feed the meter main?
jaggedben
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Why even one even need to sleeve the GEC?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
IMO, that's a bad idea. For one, the grounding electrode conductor doesn't have to go top the meter/main so why make it longer than it needs to be. Secondly, what code cycle are you under? As stated earlier you may need an exterior disconnect at the house.
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
He installing a four wire feeder from the meter main to a sub panel
why wouldn't the main bonding jumper not be at the meter main service disconnect?
Why wouldn't the meter main be an outside service disconnect?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I don't recall talking about a main bonding jumper but rather the grounding electrode conductor.
Well the code states on the building or within sight. If the meter/main is no more than 50' and within sight then I assume it is acceptable.
Well the code states on the building or within sight. If the meter/main is no more than 50' and within sight then I assume it is acceptable.
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
No, your right, he didn't say where the meter main is located. I think we or at least I took that for granted
And your also correct if its on a separate structure, the grounding electrode system for the house would be a feeder supplied building
I got tunnel vision pn this one. I visualized the meter main attached to the building
marmathsen
Senior Member
- Location
- Seattle, Washington ...ish
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
If the meter main is on the building it serves and has no distribution, couldn't the OP use a label that states "emergency disconnect, not service equipment" and leave the GEC landing at the first disconnect (deamed service disconnect) down stream along with the main bonding?
Rob G - Seattle
Rob G - Seattle
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
No the panels where located some 40 ft into the basement
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
BTW this choice makes electrical inspectors look stupid. For years you could install a sub panel 1 ft away from your service panel you go there and the neutral in the secondary panel is bonded and a 3 wire feed from the service to the second panel.
No you can't do that, you have to float your neutral separate your grounds onto a grounding bussbar and change your supply to four wire.
The electrician ask why, we'll the nec says it has to be that way, you might have even said the nec says it's not safe.
Now we have to back track everything we ever said and the electrician looks at you and says really!
No you can't do that, you have to float your neutral separate your grounds onto a grounding bussbar and change your supply to four wire.
The electrician ask why, we'll the nec says it has to be that way, you might have even said the nec says it's not safe.
Now we have to back track everything we ever said and the electrician looks at you and says really!
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