Grounding Extension rings?

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SeminoleSparky

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Orlando Fl
Hello all, First post here so dont be to hard on me.:D Today during an in-wall rough inspection (first time i've delt with this inspector) the inspector notices that we have used 3 extension rings on a jbox. He tells us U.L states I cannot use more than one extension ring because its not listed for that use and secondly If we connect our conduit to the extension ring that we have to bond it??? I cannot find anything that tells me to in the 08' code. Can anyone shed some light on what artical he could be quoting? i've looked through starting with 314.22-,250.110-,250.86
 
You would need to check with the listing on the extension ring to see if that's actually true.

Welcome to the Forum. :)
 
here is something from the UL white book 2011: page 303
METALLIC OUTLET BOXES (QCIT)
GENERAL
This category covers metallic flush device boxes, conduit bodies, conduit
boxes, floor boxes, outlet boxes, special-purpose boxes, extension rings,
covers, and cover plates for flush-mounted wiring devices, intended for
installation in accordance with Article 314 of ANSI/NFPA 70, ‘‘National
Electrical Code.’’ These products are also intended for installation and use
in accordance with the following information.
EXTENSION RINGS
Extension rings are suitable for extending properly secured flush- or
surface-mounted boxes. One or more extensions may be used. An extension
ring is intended to increase the box depth, volume, or both.
 
Yes this info is true below, sorry I failed to mention that I had that answer already.
the question is as the title states "Grounding Extension rings?"
Hv&Lv said:
here is something from the UL white book 2011: page 303
METALLIC OUTLET BOXES (QCIT)
GENERAL
This category covers metallic flush device boxes, conduit bodies, conduit
boxes, floor boxes, outlet boxes, special-purpose boxes, extension rings,
covers, and cover plates for flush-mounted wiring devices, intended for
installation in accordance with Article 314 of ANSI/NFPA 70, ??National
Electrical Code.?? These products are also intended for installation and use
in accordance with the following information.
EXTENSION RINGS
Extension rings are suitable for extending properly secured flush- or
surface-mounted boxes. One or more extensions may be used. An extension
ring is intended to increase the box depth, volume, or both.
Click to expand...
 
I can only say that I have never seen an extension ring with a grounding means other than the screws into the other box. IMO, they are grounded thru the mounting screws.
 
my point exactly, I asked him how I was to do this and he replied " tap out the mounting srew on the side or use a ground clip" I dont like to challenge an inspectors decision or interpitation but sometimes you have to prove them wrong.... I just hope he doesnt pull the AHJ card on me.

Still looking for a article that is in his favor but cant find one...
 
SeminoleSparky said:
my point exactly, I asked him how I was to do this and he replied " tap out the mounting srew on the side or use a ground clip" I dont like to challenge an inspectors decision or interpitation but sometimes you have to prove them wrong.... I just hope he doesnt pull the AHJ card on me.

Still looking for a article that is in his favor but cant find one...
Click to expand...

Let him provide you with a code section that's been violated. IMO he's wrong especially in light of the UL info that Hv&Lv posted.
 
infinity said:
Let him provide you with a code section that's been violated. IMO he's wrong especially in light of the UL info that Hv&Lv posted.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised that someone hasn't posted the "picture" that relates to this question.

FWIW I think that the inspector must give you a code section that you have not complied with.

Pete
 
SeminoleSparky said:
let me aks you this, do you like it when someone proves you wrong? Sometimes it creates hard feelings and he might be even harder on us with future inspections.. JMO I have had this happen to me before.
Click to expand...

You figure you're going to just keep grounding extension rings for the rest of your life because you're afraid to ask for a code reference?
 
That inspector needs to remove the chip from his shoulder, & take it as a learning experience.

Electricans & inspectors both can learn from each other. As stated in another post by cowboy

Inspectors are not God, they just think they are.
 
SeminoleSparky said:
let me aks you this, do you like it when someone proves you wrong? Sometimes it creates hard feelings and he might be even harder on us with future inspections.. JMO I have had this happen to me before.
Click to expand...

This is an unfortunate side effect that can happen but an inspector that does not or is unwilling to listen and learn has no place in the department. A good inspector or electrician will listen and back down when they are wrong. I ate crow many times in my life-- I don't like it but when I am wrong, I am wrong.

In our area there are means to go beyond the local inspector if need be. Of course, I would not start there but I see no reason why an inspector should be upset if you ask for a code article. If he pulls the ahj stuff then I would go further.
 
SeminoleSparky said:
let me aks you this, do you like it when someone proves you wrong? Sometimes it creates hard feelings and he might be even harder on us with future inspections.. JMO I have had this happen to me before.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that inspectors are just like the rest of the world: there is good in each group. The same as a crew on any job, there are many that see themselves as teachers and others that are wrenches in the cogs. Seek out the former, although the difficulty comes in the sparse polulation of inspectors for a given area, and finding that one who will take time to visit about the code. I see this forum as just that. Lengthy discussions of why or why not. Play that other side of the card- I suspect that you will eventually get a "Hey! I'm glad you asked, it keeps me on my toes!"
 
I have challeged (inspectors, inspector's supervisor, and building officials) in the past if I felt their calls were wrong on issues like installing ENT in metal studds, anti shortage bushing for MC cables and so on. in some cases I have hired PE engineers to give me opinion for a installation or called the manufacturer directly. My experince has been that on the next job inspectors who I challeged were much nicer and easier going.
Yes, I do ask them to provide the code that in their thoughts I am not in complaince. I don't give up unless they can prove I was wrong.
 
good discussion. i never liked to run conduit into an extension, doing so makes it exceptionally difficult to get to the bottom of the box and the wires buried down there later if necessary. there is nothing wrong with challenging an inspector. we are not special, just folks doing a job, we make mistakes and wrong calls just like everybody else. besides, it s good for us every now and again (imho) to have to really llok at what it is we are asking for and why. the ahj card is often a "power trip card"
 
Great discussion, Well Mr.Inspector showed up today for a U/G inspection and after he passed us I showed him a copy of the page out of the white book (UL) to show him more than one ring can be used.
He said "ok" like he didnt care. I then asked him to give me code artcle for grounding the ring since I read and read and could not find anything that tells me I "shall" ground them. He tells me "its in there, article 314 and then 250." I could tell at this point he is now getting aggrivated with me so I kindly walk him to the trailer and told him to have a good day.

Looks like i'm going to have to have him "try" to fail me based on his interpretation for this code next week... stay tunned!
 
None of us like to be proven wrong. The only thing I hate more than that is making the same mistake over and over because I did not know better. If someone shows me I'm wrong I will pay twice as much attention to him the next time he has something to say to me.
 
SeminoleSparky said:
let me aks you this, do you like it when someone proves you wrong? Sometimes it creates hard feelings and he might be even harder on us with future inspections.. JMO I have had this happen to me before.
Click to expand...

If i am wrong then i am wrong. i dont care who i learn from. the inspector, my 7 year old son or a 90 year old person.

If the person is wrong regardless of age or position then the person needs to be corrected, if the person doesn't want to then the ego will prevent him/her from growing.

This is my opinion only.
 
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