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Growing Stack of Siemens GFCI Breakers - Premature Fauilure?

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Fourbin

Member
Location
MI
Occupation
Control Engineer
About 5 years ago I did a major update to my home's electrical wiring. About 80% was replaced, and the change included a new service. New panel, all new breakers etc.

A couple years I started seeing occasional tripping of the GFCI breakers feeding the basement outlets. As time went on the breakers would trip more and more fequently. What started out as a monthly occurrence eventually became a couple times a week. About this time, the GFCI breakers feeding the kitchen receptacles started tripping every few weeks.

Although I found it to be very odd that I had 4 different circuits effected, I still inspected the wiring to search for faults. Every junction came apart and was looked over. After being unable to find any wiring problems, one of the breakers in the basement was disconnected from it's circuit and left in the panel, only connected to the panel itself. Within a few days it tripped. At that point I purchased a few replacement breakers, and had no further problems until the GFCI breakers in the garage sub panel started tripping on hot days.

Replacing the garage breakers also alleviated the occasional trip. One thing I did notice is that even though I had purchased the same Siemens part number, the replacement GFCI breakers has a slightly different appearance. I considered the possibility that I had received a bad batch of breakers, or that Siemens was aware of an issue, and had revised their design to remedy an issue. Either way, my problem was solved, and I didn't give it any more though. The 6 new breakers were working just fine.

Fast forward to the Present. After being away on a jobsite for 3 weeks, I returned home to find that After two plus years without any tripping, ALL SIX GFCI breakers had tripped. Occording to the neighbor we did have a storm go through while I was away but nothing too extreme. I hoped that some surge or nearby lightning strike somehow caused them to trip, and that it would be a one time thing. I reset them all and waited, and wouldn't you know it, after about 10 days one of the basement breakers just tripped again.

So I ask, what causes a GFCI breaker to fail prematurely? Is it something wrong in the environment? Are the Siemens GFCI breakers known to have a short life?
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
Ninety percent of the time if a GFCI trips it's doing it's job. In the rare case of a legitimate nuisance trip there is a list of possibilities that ranges from ordinary to supernatural. A bad batch of breakers is not out of the question, but circuit condition, connected loads, voltage spikes, bad service neutral are all possibilities.
 

Clayton79

Member
Location
illinois
Occupation
Owner/operator
10 plus years ago I installed a new panel in a residence and at least 4 of ARC fault breakers failed the inspection. They were GE brand. I replaced them amd to my knowledge They are working. Roughly same time I installed Square D QO arc and GFI in my own panel. The Arc definitely trip with nearby lightning strikes but that seems ok to me. Other than that they have all worked very well.

That has been my experience with ARC haven’t had any weird stuff happen with GFI.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
..(replaced) same Siemens part number ..considered the possibility that I had received a bad batch of breakers, or that Siemens was aware of an issue ..After two plus years without any tripping, ALL SIX GFCI breakers had tripped.

Have 3 Siemens 1P 20A GFCI's in my truck, which have tripped within an hour at 3 different client locations.
My solution has been GFCI outlets or listed Iso-xfmr for LV pool lights, rather than GFCI breakers.

Still carrying around these 3 Siemens GFCI breakers in my truck.
K1501231870
K1501231879
M1501230688

Do those part numbers look familiar?
 

Fourbin

Member
Location
MI
Occupation
Control Engineer
That has been my experience with ARC haven’t had any weird stuff happen with GFI.

Luckily the Siemens AFCI breakers have been relatively trouble free. I have one the will trip on rare occasion, but I don't believe it's any fault of the breaker. That particular circuit feeds the room with the ham radios, and only trips while transmitting.

Do those part numbers look familiar?

I believe the part numbers for the breakers I was using were QF115 and QF120. I'm not currently home to check, but I believe the first set of breakers had a white label on the front with the serial number, and the new ones that I put in had changed the sticker to silver.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
GFCI and AFCI breakers have been known to trip from radio transmitters being nearby. There is a YouTube video of a guy keying up his mic next to a panel full of GFCI breakers and they all trip at the same time. I believe that the breaker mfrs caught on to this issue and added some additional internal shielding of the electronics to the breaker designs, I know that basically all of them went through a redesign about 10 years ago (maybe more, I can't remember now).

.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
I have grown wary of Siemens. I used to like them OK but I’ve seen a lot of their breakers give out at the plant where I now work and had a few problems other places too.
 
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