Gut swap. Where can I read the UL listing?

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Coppersmith

Coppersmith

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Location
Tampa, FL, USA
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Electrical Contractor
I did a panel change where I changed the guts only. The inspector failed it because he said "modified panel installed bus from new panel to old panel, modified panel cover. Not UL listed for this application." He did not quote an NEC section.

The panelboard is unmodified. The panelboard was installed into the old enclosure (which is in pristine shape). I believe this is allowed since panelboards are sold separately from enclosures even though I bought this panelboard as part of a resi kit (panelboard, enclosure, door).

The cover was modified by making additional screw holes to line up with the enclosure. This is allowed as far as I know.

I don't think the kit is UL listed, just the panelboard. Enclosures and doors aren't listed, are they?

I want to read the UL listing for the panelboard. Where do I go to do this?
 
I wouldn't disagree with the inspectors judgement on this one.

Have we done this before? Yes.
Did we make it look factory so no one would know it had been swapped? Yes.
Do I think it creates a fire or safety hazard if done well? No.
Does it meet the letter of the law? No.

I'd look into those Eaton retrofit kits, I believe they are UL listed to retrofit into other brand panelboards, but you'd have to check.
 
I do this all the time with no problem from inspectors. I don't have the UL listing but you aren't changing anything but the cabinet. Only thing I do different is I don't drill new holes in the cover, I drill them in the cabinet to match the cover.
 
Cow said:
I wouldn't disagree with the inspectors judgement on this one.

Have we done this before? Yes.
Did we make it look factory so no one would know it had been swapped? Yes.
Do I think it creates a fire or safety hazard if done well? No.
Does it meet the letter of the law? No.

I'd look into those Eaton retrofit kits, I believe they are UL listed to retrofit into other brand panelboards, but you'd have to check.
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I would. First, and interestingly, I didn't find a requirement in NEC 408 that panelboards are even required to be listed. Second, the enclosure for a panelboard is actually covered in article 312. According to that article the only cutout boxes that are required to be listed are non-metallic ones. So unless the inspector can cite a code that some part of the installation violates then I would disagree with him. The cost is significant enough to take a chance on offending him.

On a side note, I find it ironic that a mere metal wireway per article 376 the is installed in a wet location has to be listed, but a cabinet or cutout doesn't.
 
Although: there is that clause in the NEC about equipment being accepted/approved by the AHJ (I forget article and exact wording) and listing is often used to meet that. So listing requirements may be more stringent than the specific listing requirements in the NEC. Not saying a agree with the inspector, just something to think about.
 
So as an inspector, I may let it go, but to defend the other inspector, 110.3(A) In judging equipment, considerations such as the following shall be evaluated: (2) Mechanical strength and durability, including, for parts designed to enclose and protect other equipment, the adequacy of the protection thus provided.

So if you had to drill holes to make the cover fit, was that part designed to enclose and protect?

Also look at the informational note after 110.3(A)(1)

And again, as an inspector, just because you always do it doesn't mean it's right.
 
The 2020 will specifically address this issue.
408.8 Reconditioning of Equipment.


Reconditioning of equipment within the scope of this article shall be limited as described in 408.8(A) and (B). The reconditioning process shall use design qualified parts verified under applicable standards and be performed in accordance with any instructions provided by the manufacturer. If equipment has been damaged by fire, products of combustion, or water, it shall be specifically evaluated by its manufacturer or a qualified testing laboratory prior to being returned to service.


(A) Panelboards.

Panelboards shall not be permitted to be reconditioned. This shall not prevent the replacement of a panelboard within an enclosure. In the event the replacement has not been listed for the specific enclosure and the available fault current is greater than 10,000 amperes, the completed work shall be field labeled, and any previously applied listing marks on the cabinet that pertain to the panelboard shall be removed.



(B) Switchboards and Switchgear.

Switchboards and switchgear, or sections of switchboards or switchgear, shall be permitted to be reconditioned. Reconditioned switchgear shall be listed or field labeled as reconditioned, and previously applied listing marks, if any, within the portions reconditioned shall be removed.
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(A) will require a panelboard specifically listed for the cabinet or field evaluated for the cabinet where the available fault current is greater than 10kA.
 
Little Bill said:
Only thing I do different is I don't drill new holes in the cover, I drill them in the cabinet to match the cover.
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The new cover is larger than the old enclosure by 1.5". The holes in the cover are near the edges. New holes had to be drilled in the cover in order to hit the enclosure.

cowboyjwc said:
(2) Mechanical strength and durability, including, for parts designed to enclose and protect other equipment, the adequacy of the protection thus provided. So if you had to drill holes to make the cover fit, was that part designed to enclose and protect?
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The cover is the one designed for the panelboard. It protects the panelboard adequately. The only issue is that the new cover is slightly taller than the old cover necessitating a couple of new holes. Since the cover is being held firm to the enclosure, I see no issue with protection.

I still would like to read the UL listing for the panelboard. Where do I go to do this? I think I need to prove to the inspector that nothing in the listing prohibits what I did.
 
Coppersmith said:
I still would like to read the UL listing for the panelboard. Where do I go to do this? I think I need to prove to the inspector that nothing in the listing prohibits what I did.
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Don't forget to read UL's stance on field modifications of Listed products. Basically they leave acceptance up to the AHJ.
 
An inspector once told me I had to replace an entire meter base instead of replacing one terminal block.
 
romex jockey said:
well, now i'm totally confused.....:?~RJ~
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Are you confused over the definition of a panelboard? That's the part that contains the busses and where the circuit breakers are mounted. A panelboard is mounted inside an enclosure and covered by a deadfront cover with or without a door. For commercial and industrial scale circuit breaker panels, these three things are always ordered separately (I believe). For the convenience of residential installers, manufacturers package all three of these things in the kits you find at big box stores. The main point here is panelboards can be mounted in a variety of enclosures (including ones from other manufacturer's if the listing doesn't prohibit it).

It would probably be less confusing if we had a better name for panelboard like "bussboard" or the nickname electricians usually use -- panel guts.
 
Last edited:
Panelboard. A single panel or group of panel units designed
for assembly in the form of a single panel, including
buses and automatic overcurrent devices, and equipped
with or without switches for the control of light, heat, or
power circuits; designed to be placed in a cabinet or cutout
box placed in or against a wall, partition, or other support;
and accessible only from the front.
 
I have taken loadcenter "interiors" and replaced in existing cabinets - that were the same cabinet many times.

Some examples

- converting single phase to three phase where both versions use the exact same cabinet - never had to drill or modify anything, just swap the guts and the original cover even fits, and of course pull third phase conductor in the supply.

- sometimes they use same cabinet for different number of breaker spaces - have replaced just the guts to get those additional spaces, again no drilling or other fabrication just swap guts.

- sometimes there was a failure of loadcenter guts (various reasons) but same thing is still in production, simply purchase new one and swap guts and not have to spend time getting conduits/cables out and back into new cabinet, it all fits perfectly because they never made any major design changes, can sometimes run into minor changes though. With this type of situation have even had situations with a 3R loadcenter that failed but to lessen cost a little, purchased an indoor loadcenter that has same guts to swap with.
 
electrofelon said:
Don,

I find a disconnect between your wording at the end of y our post, and the wording you quoted. I don't see a requirement for a field evaluation.
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The language in the second sentence of (B) just says "field labeled" and while that is intended to require a field evaluation, it does stop a bit short of saying that. In almost all other field labeling requirements the language has been changed in the 2020 to require "evaluation and field labeling". I expect this may be corrected before the 2020 is published.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The language in the second sentence of (B) just says "field labeled" and while that is intended to require a field evaluation, it does stop a bit short of saying that. In almost all other field labeling requirements the language has been changed in the 2020 to require "evaluation and field labeling". I expect this may be corrected before the 2020 is published.
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Thanks
 
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