Hair salon.

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J

JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Hello,
I'm new here.
I recently completed a hair salon in a strip mall. The owner is a neighbor of mine whom I've known for over 10 years, so we went forward with no bid & no contract. I know thats not a wise move, but the plan was to try to save him some money by letting him work as my "helper" : pull some cable and screw in some boxes , etc.
Anyway, here's some of the details:
9 styling stations w/ double duplex on the left side and a regular duplex recep on the right. Each station required a home run.
Home runs for the reception desk, the wax room, the office, the facial room, the nail stations, the break room, the laundry, and the sit-down dryers (4 of them, 12/3 MC x2).
Wall sconces on both sides of each styling station. About 60' of track lighting w/ 25 heads. 5 switches at the desk with switch legs going in all directions.
He paid for the sconces and the track light, and the first 2 rolls of MC. I provided everything else. My material costs are about $1650. I've got about 90 man-hours into it.
The sign wiring was provided by the landlord, as well as the general lighting (13 foot high ceilings) , exit/egress lighting and 1 bathroom.
He gave me $2000 when we started. I gave him a invoice for a balance due of $6600. I thought it was pretty reasonable but he says he and his partners are "shocked", and asked me to break it down for them so they know what they're paying for.
I'd appreciate any input from other contractors about this situation. I know there's lots to be said about the dangers of doing a job on a "gentleman's agreement" and the lessons to be learned from this, but I'm really interested in the dollar amount I billed him and if others think I was too high and should I back off my number a bit? This is in central Jersey.
Thanks for any input.
John
 
Re: Hair salon.

This sounds like a trainwreck of a business arrangement from the beginning. That said, the price is pretty much in line with mine if this was an all pipe and wire/MC job. Heck, the way I figure, you've got over 4 grand in labor in this alone. My price would have been around 7980, with 5980 being the balance due. The bigger question is do you want paid OR do you want to remain friends and call this an "educational expense"? Six grand is a big pill to swallow.

[ June 19, 2005, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]
 
Re: Hair salon.

I don't do commercial, so I can't comment on the specifics regarding materials, but based on what you listed, 90 man-hours doesn't sound unreasonable for all the work. My calculator says the work got billed at an average of $77/man-hour, which is on the low side where I live. Overall, your numbers don't sound out of line at all. Also, I wouldn't back down. That's a slippery slope you don't want to go down.
 
Re: Hair salon.

HEY JOHN,,
YOUR RIGHT ON TARGET,YOU MADE 77.00 BUCKS AN HOUR,THATS WHAT YOUR SUPPOSED TO MAKE,,ALLTHOUGH THE NEXT TIME SOME ONE CALLS YOU, TELL THEM YOU MAKE 77.OO DOLLARS AN HOUR,FOR ONE MAN,
IN THE BOSTON SUBURBS I GET 100.00 AN HOUR FOR 2 GUYS,W/ A TWO HOUR MIN.I TELL THE PEOPLE THIS IN THE VERY FIRST MINUTES OF CONVERSATION,NO SURPRIZES,
STICK TO YOUR GUNS,,
THE ONLY MISTAKE YOU MADE WAS NOT TELLING THEM BEFORE YOU STARTED,WITCH MIGHT COST YOU SOME $$$ OR A FRIEND,, YOUR GONNA LEARN
GOOD LUCK,,
 
Re: Hair salon.

In my view it's always a mistake to let someone help you do your work. They will calculate their help as 50 percent of the labor not the small amount that you would pay a green helper.
So why not break it down for them. Show what you would bid the job for normally. Show the man hrs. necessary and let the owner see that he just worked a few hard hours for about $10 dollars an hr. This guy probably thinks that he was suposed to save thousands by working himself. Most people don't know that they are unskilled labor and that is not worth much.
 
Re: Hair salon.

I think that some guys might be missing the fact that he had 1650 in actual material costs, which should bill out at about 3 grand. This only leaves about 5600 bucks of this for labor. That's only 62 bucks an hour, which is more than fair.
 
Re: Hair salon.

Larry L, please do not use the Caps Lock feature. It is perceived as shouting and it makes your post difficult to read. Thanks a bunch. :D
 
Re: Hair salon.

Originally posted by mdshunk:
I think that some guys might be missing the fact that he had 1650 in actual material costs, which should bill out at about 3 grand. This only leaves about 5600 bucks of this for labor. That's only 62 bucks an hour, which is more than fair.
Click to expand...
I got $77/hr also:
-1650 material
+2000 payment
------------
+350
+6600
--------
6950/90 = $77.22
 
Re: Hair salon.

8600 total price
-2000 payment
-1650 actual material cost
-1350 material markup
------------
3600 labor / 90 hours = 40 dollars per man hour
 
Re: Hair salon.

Originally posted by mdshunk:

-1350 material markup
-
Click to expand...
How did you arrive at this figure ~ 80% +/- ? (Thinking maybe there is a better way ~ aka estimating and mark-up %'s)

[ June 21, 2005, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]
 
Re: Hair salon.

I would say he got a real nice deal.
Most people that do not know the industry or construction of any type think that most of the job is profit and that should be the savings. If you have to, bid it out at you normal rate plus o.h. and profit and show him that there is not much to save.
I did this job on my est. software. I had to make a lot of assumptions but i came up with a bid price of $7890.00.
 
Re: Hair salon.

I would just tell him where you came up with the figure. He probably does not realize how much money you have in this - either in time or materials. I don't really think it matters much how much or how little you mark up your material.

You have learned why you need to tell people up front what you are charging per hour on these T&M jobs and tell them along the way what the materials will cost so there are no surprizes.

People usually understand these things if they are told up front, but it is a major shock to the system to not get any information at all until the end and than get it dumped on.

This is not a very "friendly" way to treat anyone, especially someone you live next to.
 
Re: Hair salon.

Originally posted by petersonra:
You have learned why you need to tell people up front what you are charging per hour on these T&M jobs and tell them along the way what the materials will cost so there are no surprizes.

People usually understand these things if they are told up front, but it is a major shock to the system to not get any information at all until the end and than get it dumped on.
Click to expand...
I agree with Bob.

I don't think you did anything really wrong, except let your friend think that you suckered him by not being clear up-front what you were going to charge and how much it would probably cost. If you had done that, he could have decided before the work was done if he thought it was reasonable. Then he wouldn't have been surprised. Now he probably feels that he's backed into a corner.

If I were you, I wouldn't go there for a hair cut for a while.
 
Re: Hair salon.

Thanks for the feedback.
I've gone over my numbers again and I'm confident they're fair, and the responses in this thread seem to support that as well. The remarks about not being up-front and making my neighbor feel like a sucker are also appreciated. It certainly was not my intention to cause this reaction, but I guess I can understand his position. Then again, when he ordered the track light from my supplier and then put the order on hold so he could check the prices at Home Depot, I knew I was in for a bumpy ride.
 
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