Handle ties on breakers

[arnettda]

In a multi wire circuit I would need to use a handle tie or a 2 pole breaker. I am unable to get single pole 20 QO breakers, But I can get 2 pole 20's. Can I use a 2 pole breaker on a non multi wire circuit.

 

[jaggedben]

I don't think it's a code violation. The downside is that if the customer trips one circuit then the other will trip unnecessarily.

 

[jap]

I don't think it's a code violation. The downside is that if the customer trips one circuit then the other will trip unnecessarily.

If it's a "non" multi-wire circuit on a 2p breaker,then he wouldn't have a 2nd circuit to worry about tripping unnecessarily.

JAP>

 

[Rock86]

If it's a "non" multi-wire circuit on a 2p breaker,then he wouldn't have a 2nd circuit to worry about tripping unnecessarily.

JAP>

But if it is a qo type 2-pole, he also wont have a separate disconnect for each circuit. there is only one switch to throw... no handle ties.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

In a multi wire circuit I would need to use a handle tie or a 2 pole breaker. I am unable to get single pole 20 QO breakers, But I can get 2 pole 20's. Can I use a 2 pole breaker on a non multi wire circuit.

There is no problem using a dp breaker for 2 single circuits.

 

[jap]

He's using a 2p because he cant find a single pole breaker.

He's only dealing with 1 circuit.

JAP>

 

[jap]

But if it is a qo type 2-pole, he also wont have a separate disconnect for each circuit. there is only one switch to throw... no handle ties.

You wouldn't have a separate disconnect for each circuit regardless of what brand of 2p breaker you were using.

JAP>

 

[Rock86]

You wouldn't have a separate disconnect for each circuit regardless of what brand of 2p breaker you were using.

JAP>

sure you could. I could pull the handle tie off of a HomeLine 2P breaker... boom, 2 independent circuit breakers.

 

[Fred B]

Here is a question not sure if it known here but I've seen a few mfg that have these 2 pole breakers that from the exterior look like it was just 2 single pole fastened together and with handle tie. Are they actually 2 singles on the inside?
As opposed to another type that is just a single handle but double size, is that internally the same? I've never took one apart.

 

[jap]

sure you could. I could pull the handle tie off of a HomeLine 2P breaker... boom, 2 independent circuit breakers.

Then you would no longer have a 2 pole breaker.

JAP>

 

[LarryFine]

Here is a question not sure if it known here but I've seen a few mfg that have these 2 pole breakers that from the exterior look like it was just 2 single pole fastened together and with handle tie. Are they actually 2 singles on the inside?
As opposed to another type that is just a single handle but double size, is that internally the same? I've never took one apart.

No, a 2p or 3p has a small piece of metal or plastic that connects the trip mechanisms together.

That's what the "internal common trip" is. Wit or without a handle tie, all poles will trip together.

 

[jap]

No, a 2p or 3p has a small piece of metal or plastic that connects the trip mechanisms together.

That's what the "internal common trip" is. Wit or without a handle tie, all poles will trip together.

Exactly.

And if you remove the handle tie, and , one circuit trips one side, the common trip will trip both sides, and, neither side will reset individually on their own.

JAP>

 

[LarryFine]

Then you would no longer have a 2 pole breaker.

JAP>

Correct.

Both poles would trip automatically, but not manually; that's what the handle tie is there for.

A handle tie alone does not assure that one pole tripping will cause the other pole(s) to open.

 

[Rock86]

Then you would no longer have a 2 pole breaker.

JAP>

It would still be a 2pole... the breakers would be mechanically connect, just with the handle tie removed. But thats getting off topic.

 

[GoldDigger]

It would still be a 2pole... the breakers would be mechanically connect, just with the handle tie removed. But thats getting off topic.

They would be common trip, which is not the same as mechanically connected in terms of manually opening and resetting after trip.
Curiosity asks: Once the common trip is triggered, do you have to reset (off-on) the handle on both sides to get even one pole to close?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It doesn't matter if it is a multiwire branch circuit, 2 single 2-wire circuits or just one circuit, he can still use a dp breaker.

 

[jap]

They would be common trip, which is not the same as mechanically connected in terms of manually opening and resetting after trip.
Curiosity asks: Once the common trip is triggered, do you have to reset (off-on) the handle on both sides to get even one pole to close?

Yes.
As if the tie was still in place.
Both at the same time.

JAP>

 

[nickelec]

I had an inspection today and the inspector told me even the twin breakers need handle ties ... Slaps head! Hard!

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[LarryFine]

I had an inspection today and the inspector told me even the twin breakers need handle ties ... Slaps head! Hard!

No, no, no! They can't share neutrals, so there's no reason. You should slap his head.

 

[Fred B]

I had an inspection today and the inspector told me even the twin breakers need handle ties ... Slaps head! Hard!

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If you are referring to the tandem breaker no reason to, should never be used for MWBC, overloads the neutral.

No, no, no! They can't share neutrals, so there's no reason. You should slap his head.

100% agree. No different than using a full size breakers and skipping a space with a MWBC. What would the inspector say to that installation? If he has any knowledge he would say no to that, he was not thinking, inspector speaking off the cuff and you can get poor advice. Would be interested in the inspectors reply if you call him to the question about a MWBC being on 2 breakers that skip a space putting them on the same buss .