Handle Ties

[mtnelect]

City of Glendale (California) is now requiring Handle Ties on twin breakers that fit in a standard breaker space. This is not a "Multi Wire" circuit ? But if that's what they want a bag of ten is only $4.95.

 

[infinity]

Why do they want handle ties on CB's that are not supplying a MWBC?

 

[jap]

Maybe because when your dealing with the load end of a piggy back breaker they want both load terminals that are in close proximity de-energized ?

Not sure.



JAP>

 

[LarryFine]

That's weird for two reasons:

1. Same phase so there's no shared neutral.

2. I've never seen a handle tie that small.

 

[electrofelon]

That's weird for two reasons:

1. Same phase so there's no shared neutral.

2. I've never seen a handle tie that small.

According to this:
https://home.howstuffworks.com/sizes-of-finishing-nails.htm
finishing nails go down to 1". which is a little long but could be cut down :lol:

 

[Little Bill]

Why do they want handle ties on CB's that are not supplying a MWBC?

My best guesses....
1.) Ignorant person making the local amendments
2.) They know that "Hammering Handy Hank" thinks he is making a MWBC with the twin breakers and they want both breakers off if working on it. But that doesn't address overloading the neutral!

 

[MAC702]

Why don't we just require main breakers to be shut off (and from a separate main disconnect) before any electrical work is done? If it saves just one idiot... :rant:

 

[curt swartz]

(1) How would you install a handle tie on a twin breaker? All that I can think of require the handles to be spread apart to install.

(2) Unless they have filed a formal amendment with the State of California they can't require it. They must follow the CEC.

 

[kwired]

That's weird for two reasons:

1. Same phase so there's no shared neutral.

2. I've never seen a handle tie that small.

My thought immediately - there is no handle ties other than the "homemade" type that would fit them. I know a QO handle tie will work between adjacent tandem breakers to make a MWBC out of the inner two handles, but they don't make any that fit between two handles on same tandem breaker.

My best guesses....
1.) Ignorant person making the local amendments
2.) They know that "Hammering Handy Hank" thinks he is making a MWBC with the twin breakers and they want both breakers off if working on it. But that doesn't address overloading the neutral!

Bingo. May not be allowed to make such amendments by law from what it sounds like either.

 

[Sierrasparky]

My best guesses....
1.) Ignorant person making the local amendments
2.) They know that "Hammering Handy Hank" thinks he is making a MWBC with the twin breakers and they want both breakers off if working on it. But that doesn't address overloading the neutral!

(1) How would you install a handle tie on a twin breaker? All that I can think of require the handles to be spread apart to install.

(2) Unless they have filed a formal amendment with the State of California they can't require it. They must follow the CEC.

I bet if you or I were to waste our time and search the filed local amendments we would find nothing.
This a just another wanabe prick inspector touting something he thought he learned. Just another idiot.

 

[mtnelect]

City of Glendale (California) is now requiring Handle Ties on twin breakers that fit in a standard breaker space. This is not a "Multi Wire" circuit ? But if that's what they want a bag of ten is only $4.95.

View attachment Siemens Handle Ties, 03-30-2019.pdf

 

[mtnelect]

Updated information, see attachment.View attachment Siemens Handle Ties, 03-30-2019.pdf

I was wrong ! ... The handle ties are for the multi-wire circuits. The tandem breakers on a residential panel are in either H1 or H2. But when two or more tandem breakers are used you will have a multi-wire circuit. After installing the attached handle ties it passed inspection.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Updated information, see attachment.View attachment 22710

I was wrong ! ... The handle ties are for the multi-wire circuits. The tandem breakers on a residential panel are in either H1 or H2. But when two or more tandem breakers are used you will have a multi-wire circuit. After installing the attached handle ties it passed inspection.

Hummm, I still don't get what you are speaking of.

If there is no shared neutral there is no MWBC, ( Multi wire BRANCH circuit. ) which may not be what you refer to as a multi wire circuit.


IF there is no neutral then it ain't a MWBC and NO handle ties. It does not matter how many twin breakers used if there is no shared neutral , NO Handle tie. , I don't know what crack your inspector is smoking.

 

[texie]

Updated information, see attachment.View attachment 22710

I was wrong ! ... The handle ties are for the multi-wire circuits. The tandem breakers on a residential panel are in either H1 or H2. But when two or more tandem breakers are used you will have a multi-wire circuit. After installing the attached handle ties it passed inspection.

I'm confused here. Those handle ties are for when you have a MWBC connected to 2 adjoining twin breakers. But in your OP I understood you to say you did not have a MWBC in which case you do not need handle ties.

 

[mtnelect]

Handle Ties - Multi Circuits

Handle Ties - Multi Circuits

Correction Notice ...

We normally do commercial installations ... We were caught off guard with this residential service change. A multi circuit that share a neutral now needs a "Handle Tie".

 

[curt swartz]

Correction Notice ...

We normally do commercial installations ... We were caught off guard with this residential service change. A multi circuit that share a neutral now needs a "Handle Tie".

Now you are changing your story. If you have 2 circuits that share a neutral that is a multi-wire circuit and does require a handle tie or multi pole breaker. Residential and commercial are the same requirements. You can not connect both circuits to the same tandem breaker. They need to be on adjacent breakers which you can use the handle tie you linked to.

 

[kwired]

Correction Notice ...

We normally do commercial installations ... We were caught off guard with this residential service change. A multi circuit that share a neutral now needs a "Handle Tie".

That rule applies everywhere not just residential since either 2008 or 2011 code.

But if both ungrounded conductors are on the same "tandem" you don't have a proper MWBC, the shared neutral in that case is not carrying unbalance current instead current is additive on the neutral. You can have a MWBC between two handles on different tandems on adjacent slots in the panel with a handle tie between the two handles though.