Hard wired smoke detectors
- Thread starter fremont
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
They must be wired to the pantry light.
Chris
They must be wired to the pantry light.
Chris
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
There are a couple rules that forbid any other outlets from being on the same circuit. One relates to the "Small Appliance" circuits. Another relates to receptacle circuits in bathrooms.
As long as you don't violate any of those requirements, you can power the detectors however you wish.
I suspect you are just trying to pull someone's leg. They don't have to be on an AFCI circuit unless they share that circuit with one or more bedroom outlets.Originally posted by raider1:P.S. They also need to be on an AFCI protected circuit.
There are a couple rules that forbid any other outlets from being on the same circuit. One relates to the "Small Appliance" circuits. Another relates to receptacle circuits in bathrooms.
As long as you don't violate any of those requirements, you can power the detectors however you wish.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
Charlie, if the local code requires smoke detectors in every bedroom, then they need to be protected by an AFCI.
Charlie, if the local code requires smoke detectors in every bedroom, then they need to be protected by an AFCI.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
I was trying to be funny, sorry.
The reference to a AFCI was on an assumption that this is new construction. In a new home a hard wired smoke detector is required in each bedroom, and outside of the bedroom. These smokes need to be interconnected, which means any other smokes will be on the same circuit and therefore be part of a circuit with outlets in a bedroom. 210.12 (B) is the code reference to which I am referring.
In Utah we use the IRC which is where the smoke detector requirements are from.
The original poster might have been talking about a smoke detector in a remodel which might not meet the same requirements for the interconnect.
Chris
I was trying to be funny, sorry.
The reference to a AFCI was on an assumption that this is new construction. In a new home a hard wired smoke detector is required in each bedroom, and outside of the bedroom. These smokes need to be interconnected, which means any other smokes will be on the same circuit and therefore be part of a circuit with outlets in a bedroom. 210.12 (B) is the code reference to which I am referring.
In Utah we use the IRC which is where the smoke detector requirements are from.
The original poster might have been talking about a smoke detector in a remodel which might not meet the same requirements for the interconnect.
Chris
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
fremont's openning post asks about the kitchen lighting circuit as a source of power for hard wired smoke detectors.
The important word I note is that detectors is plural. I assume, then, that the detectors are 125 Volt and that the lighting circuit is 15 or 20 Amps.
As long as none of the smoke detector openings are installed inside bedrooms, the NEC allows this, with no comment.
However, if one of the smoke detectors is mounted on an opening inside a bedroom, the outlet that the smoke is connected to must be AFCI protected, per NEC 210.12(B).
Local ordinance or State ruling may exist that waives smoke detectors from the requirements of NEC 210.12.
fremont's openning post asks about the kitchen lighting circuit as a source of power for hard wired smoke detectors.
The important word I note is that detectors is plural. I assume, then, that the detectors are 125 Volt and that the lighting circuit is 15 or 20 Amps.
As long as none of the smoke detector openings are installed inside bedrooms, the NEC allows this, with no comment.
However, if one of the smoke detectors is mounted on an opening inside a bedroom, the outlet that the smoke is connected to must be AFCI protected, per NEC 210.12(B).
Local ordinance or State ruling may exist that waives smoke detectors from the requirements of NEC 210.12.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
The ones in the bedroom do, but the ones in the kitchen do not need to be on the same circuit. I agree with the way Al described the distinction.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
I agree that local and state amendments might change the NEC and other building code requirements. The IRC is pretty clear that all the smoke detectors be interconnected.
That said the smoke detectors that I have wired interconnect with a 4 wire system (1 ungrounded conductor, 1 grounded conductor, and one interconnect wire, as well as a EGC). These systems are only on one circuit, hence the requirement for AFCI protection.
Chris
I agree that local and state amendments might change the NEC and other building code requirements. The IRC is pretty clear that all the smoke detectors be interconnected.
That said the smoke detectors that I have wired interconnect with a 4 wire system (1 ungrounded conductor, 1 grounded conductor, and one interconnect wire, as well as a EGC). These systems are only on one circuit, hence the requirement for AFCI protection.
Chris
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
I would like to add that not all jurisdictions are under the '02 or '05 code cycle, so the "all outlets in bedrooms must be on AFCI-protected circuits" rule may not apply.
I would like to add that not all jurisdictions are under the '02 or '05 code cycle, so the "all outlets in bedrooms must be on AFCI-protected circuits" rule may not apply.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
LarryFine makes a good point.
Each area can have different changes, adoptions, and editions of codes enforced. That can make it hard to make a statement like I did in my earlier post.
Chris
LarryFine makes a good point.
Each area can have different changes, adoptions, and editions of codes enforced. That can make it hard to make a statement like I did in my earlier post.
Chris
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
I suggest we add the year to NEC article references, such as "'02 - 210.4"
Thanx, Chris.
I suggest we add the year to NEC article references, such as "'02 - 210.4"
stew
Senior Member
- Location
- federal way,washington
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
In washington the electrical gods were thinking. Here we are not required by WAC exception to put the afcis in bedrooms on afcis.The logic is that you always want the afci to operate independantly of the afci. Lets say a fire of some type gets going in a wall and causes the afci to trip. If the smokes are on that circuit then you then of course have no smokie protection. Seems to make sense to me. Now all we have to do is get the nec codemakers on the same page eh?
In washington the electrical gods were thinking. Here we are not required by WAC exception to put the afcis in bedrooms on afcis.The logic is that you always want the afci to operate independantly of the afci. Lets say a fire of some type gets going in a wall and causes the afci to trip. If the smokes are on that circuit then you then of course have no smokie protection. Seems to make sense to me. Now all we have to do is get the nec codemakers on the same page eh?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
There is no inherent risk for a smoke detector to be wired on an AFCI.
The ones I have seen are battery back-up and would operate without 120V in the case you have described.
There is no inherent risk for a smoke detector to be wired on an AFCI.
stew
Senior Member
- Location
- federal way,washington
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
unless the bateries are dead? I meant the smokie to operate independantly of the afci hurk sorry for the mistake.
[ November 06, 2005, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: stew ]
unless the bateries are dead? I meant the smokie to operate independantly of the afci hurk sorry for the mistake.
[ November 06, 2005, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: stew ]
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
No apologies needed I knew what you meant but just had to raze ya.
It is like that here in Indiana as they don't want smokes or the lights on with the AFCIs, just receptacles. They put the wording of the 1999 NEC back in. The reason was if a home owner only used the home seasonly and the smokes was fed from a unused bedroom, they do have to potential to run the batteries dead if the AFCI was to trip, then the occupants come home and don't go into the unused bedroom for a few days so they never noticed the AFCI tripped, a fire breaks out while they are asleep. And we know the rest. But most in SD's the batteries should last 6 months.
No apologies needed I knew what you meant but just had to raze ya.
It is like that here in Indiana as they don't want smokes or the lights on with the AFCIs, just receptacles. They put the wording of the 1999 NEC back in. The reason was if a home owner only used the home seasonly and the smokes was fed from a unused bedroom, they do have to potential to run the batteries dead if the AFCI was to trip, then the occupants come home and don't go into the unused bedroom for a few days so they never noticed the AFCI tripped, a fire breaks out while they are asleep. And we know the rest. But most in SD's the batteries should last 6 months.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
I don't have a 2005 in my house, so whenever I quote code I do mention 2002 in my references.
I think all the regulars here are working off the 2005, so the unofficial agreement is that all references are based on that.
I don't have a 2005 in my house, so whenever I quote code I do mention 2002 in my references.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
I'd like to see a state-by-state breakdown. I bet there are more using the '02 than '05.
Gee, I consider myself a regular, and we use the '99 here in Va., as of 10/1/03.Originally posted by georgestolz:
I think all the regulars here are working off the 2005, so the unofficial agreement is that all references are based on that.
I don't have a 2005 in my house, so whenever I quote code I do mention 2002 in my references.
I'd like to see a state-by-state breakdown. I bet there are more using the '02 than '05.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Hard wired smoke detectors
Thanx, Roger. From a quick scan, it looks like the '02 is indeed in the widest use, but with a lot of '05 "projected", but the list needs an update.
Thanx, Roger. From a quick scan, it looks like the '02 is indeed in the widest use, but with a lot of '05 "projected", but the list needs an update.
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