Haunted house voltage problems

[DR MATT]

My friend in Florida (Ameila Island Jacksonville area) called me about his house (house built 2006) wiring. HIs computer (Vacuum shorted completely) and any appliance was shorting or not functioning. He was measuring 122 to 138 volts throughout his residence at his receptacles. The voltage would change while his meter was on a receptacle 122-144 volts. This happen several months after a proximity lightning strike. He first called two different electrical contractors and they could not figure out the problem, left and would not return his calls. They told him the house was haunted. He called me in MD wondering what to do? I told him to contact power co & check incoming (overhead service) voltage from transformer. All normal voltage. Meter outside with WP 200amp C/B his main panel feed with SER as subpanel. The power co after several visits changed the transformer and the service drop to meter. My friend removed all wiring from panel except the main power. installed a new 15amp C/B and connected 14-2 RX extended it on the floor install a receptacle every 12' (laying on the ground in his residence). Same problem volt at 1st recept 122 4th recept 138. He installed a new HR (no wiring in panel all wiring removed) to a bedroom on the 2nd floor and connect to existing receptacles in room (volt 122-144 at last receptacle). All plumbing in house is plastic, incoiming water service plastic. I told him to check his grounding at his panel. There is no #4 cu ground wire from subpanel to outside ground rod. There is no secondary ground. Hot water heater did not have a cu jumper across hot and cold. He has installed 3 ground rods with #4 cu connecting to meter and WP C/B outside. I'm having a hard time believing the volt measurements he is providing, especially the laying the 14-2 on the floor with 4 receptacles attached? My thought is the insulation on the branch circuit wiring could be damaged because of the lightning? He said all wires from house run through a small hole all bundled together no spacing just a big bundle. I wondering about induction? He has been replacing wires and devices for 3 weeks. He has moved out of the residence for fear of fire. My guess it's a grounding/bonding problem but not being there I am getting second hand rookie information. He's not sure but thinks there is a green bond screw in the neutral? Not sure what to tell him to do now.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I don't understand how the voltage is getting higher, down the line.

"Same problem volt at 1st recept 122 4th recept 138."

My first guess would be a neutral issue.

 

[kwired]

There is a bad neutral somewhere, could be anywhere between transformer terminals to the service or feeder supplying effected circuits.

 

[cowboyjwc]

There is a bad neutral somewhere, could be anywhere between transformer terminals to the service or feeder supplying effected circuits.

I knew the odds were that we would have to finally agree on something.

 

[DR MATT]

My friend in Florida (Ameila Island Jacksonville area) called me about his house (house built 2006) wiring. HIs computer (Vacuum shorted completely) and any appliance was shorting or not functioning. He was measuring 122 to 138 volts throughout his residence at his receptacles. The voltage would change while his meter was on a receptacle 122-144 volts. This happen several months after a proximity lightning strike. He first called two different electrical contractors and they could not figure out the problem, left and would not return his calls. They told him the house was haunted. He called me in MD wondering what to do? I told him to contact power co & check incoming (overhead service) voltage from transformer. All normal voltage. Meter outside with WP 200amp C/B his main panel feed with SER as subpanel. The power co after several visits changed the transformer and the service drop to meter. My friend removed all wiring from panel except the main power. installed a new 15amp C/B and connected 14-2 RX extended it on the floor install a receptacle every 12' (laying on the ground in his residence). Same problem volt at 1st recept 122 4th recept 138. He installed a new HR (no wiring in panel all wiring removed) to a bedroom on the 2nd floor and connect to existing receptacles in room (volt 122-144 at last receptacle). All plumbing in house is plastic, incoiming water service plastic. I told him to check his grounding at his panel. There is no #4 cu ground wire from subpanel to outside ground rod. There is no secondary ground. Hot water heater did not have a cu jumper across hot and cold. He has installed 3 ground rods with #4 cu connecting to meter and WP C/B outside. I'm having a hard time believing the volt measurements he is providing, especially the laying the 14-2 on the floor with 4 receptacles attached? My thought is the insulation on the branch circuit wiring could be damaged because of the lightning? He said all wires from house run through a small hole all bundled together no spacing just a big bundle. I wondering about induction? He has been replacing wires and devices for 3 weeks. He has moved out of the residence for fear of fire. My guess it's a grounding/bonding problem but not being there I am getting second hand rookie information. He's not sure but thinks there is a green bond screw in the neutral? Not sure what to tell him to do now.

I'm not sure either. Maybe this is a defective meter? I told him to install a #4 ground to the sub panel and drive a ground rod and attach it. He did that and said the voltage stopped jumping around and is solid 122. Shouldn't the ground from the SER be enough? He didn't want to open the main WP C/B outside, so maybe the ground came loose or burned off during the lightning strike?

 

[Buck Parrish]

My guess too, is a neutral or likely a main phase will cause a ghost in the line scenario. If one goes out

the other will travel around through waterheater, coils, etc...


If he's not confident pulling the meter he may never find it. That's the first thing you need to do unless your getting 240. Then it will be an individual branch circuits. The panel bus bar may be heating, etc, etc...

 

[roger]

I'm not sure either. Maybe this is a defective meter? I told him to install a #4 ground to the sub panel and drive a ground rod and attach it. He did that and said the voltage stopped jumping around and is solid 122. Shouldn't the ground from the SER be enough? He didn't want to open the main WP C/B outside, so maybe the ground came loose or burned off during the lightning strike?

If the GEC did in fact make a difference there is definitely a neutral problem at or before the service equipment. Ground rods should not make any difference. I would suggest he find out who some of the more reputable EC's in the area are and contact them. What you are telling us is not a solution to the problem and leaves a dangerous situation.


Roger

 

[GoldDigger]

I'm not sure either. Maybe this is a defective meter? I told him to install a #4 ground to the sub panel and drive a ground rod and attach it. He did that and said the voltage stopped jumping around and is solid 122. Shouldn't the ground from the SER be enough? He didn't want to open the main WP C/B outside, so maybe the ground came loose or burned off during the lightning strike?

The problem appears to be that the service neutral was unreliable, and so the only neutral return path was through the bond to the ground and from there to earth. The utility does not provide you with a ground in the service wiring, just a neutral which goes back to their transformers. They intend it to be grounded, but that can fail with no immediate bad effects.
Also the most likely reason for the voltage issue was that the whole neutral bar was being forced in one direction or the other by the current from loads not balanced across phases.
Under normal conditions the ECG/GEC should not be carrying current.
You can try measuring the current in the GEC under normal loads with a clamp-on meter. There should not be any!

Or possibly all that happened was that the person who installed the new ground decided to tighten all the loose screws in the panel while he was at it.

 

[delectric123]

we ran into similar issues in a small garage which got 120/240 1ph underground from a pole 60 ft. away. the HV transformer was located 300 ft. away from the pole, and the pole was used to tap 204V to 3 other loactions via overhead cable(the 3 other locations power was fine). out on the pole everything tested normal. With all the wiring disconnected from the breaker panel and connecting an appliance to Phase A, the voltage went down to 60. with the appliance still on Phase A, i put a small load on Phase B and the voltage on Phase A went to 180. we also blame it on a neutral fault. we're pretty sure when we'll replace the underground wire from the pole to the garage, our problem will be solved.

 

[kwired]

we ran into similar issues in a small garage which got 120/240 1ph underground from a pole 60 ft. away. the HV transformer was located 300 ft. away from the pole, and the pole was used to tap 204V to 3 other loactions via overhead cable(the 3 other locations power was fine). out on the pole everything tested normal. With all the wiring disconnected from the breaker panel and connecting an appliance to Phase A, the voltage went down to 60. with the appliance still on Phase A, i put a small load on Phase B and the voltage on Phase A went to 180. we also blame it on a neutral fault. we're pretty sure when we'll replace the underground wire from the pole to the garage, our problem will be solved.

300 feet is a lot to replace if there is just one bad spot, there are locators for finding and repairing that bad spot.

Has anyone driven steel posts or any similar activity in the vicinity of where this conductor runs?

 

[GoldDigger]

300 feet is a lot to replace if there is just one bad spot, there are locators for finding and repairing that bad spot.

On the other hand, if the ends of the underground fee appear to be in bad shape, then total replacement may be the way to go.

 

[kwired]

On the other hand, if the ends of the underground fee appear to be in bad shape, then total replacement may be the way to go.

Fault locator will help determine this fairly quickly.

Most instances I have run into where lengthy sections of cable are bad is situations involving rodent activity, or possibly some other physical abuse situation, or even lightning damage from a fairly direct hit.

OP is not all that far from my location and probably has a lot of similar circumstances I frequently run into. Oops, I said OP, but it is delectric123 that I was talking about who is not the OP of this thread.

 

[delectric123]

no, the bad part is the 30 ft. section from the pole to the garage. and its under a road so there are no posts nearby. probably from the building foundation shifting

 

[kwired]

no, the bad part is the 30 ft. section from the pole to the garage. and its under a road so there are no posts nearby. probably from the building foundation shifting

Outside of rodent or other physical damage I have found direct buried conductors often fail right where they turn to emerge from grade, so I would maybe suggest at least digging out each end of the run and checking for this. I don't know why this happens but have seen it many times. Maybe a lightning surge has issues at the turn and breaks down insulation at that point?

 

[delectric123]

i'd say its from shifting when the frost lifts it up

 

[Sernund]

My friend in Florida (Ameila Island Jacksonville area) called me about his house (house built 2006) wiring. HIs computer (Vacuum shorted completely) and any appliance was shorting or not functioning. He was measuring 122 to 138 volts throughout his residence at his receptacles. The voltage would change while his meter was on a receptacle 122-144 volts. This happen several months after a proximity lightning strike. He first called two different electrical contractors and they could not figure out the problem, left and would not return his calls. They told him the house was haunted. He called me in MD wondering what to do? I told him to contact power co & check incoming (overhead service) voltage from transformer. All normal voltage. Meter outside with WP 200amp C/B his main panel feed with SER as subpanel. The power co after several visits changed the transformer and the service drop to meter. My friend removed all wiring from panel except the main power. installed a new 15amp C/B and connected 14-2 RX extended it on the floor install a receptacle every 12' (laying on the ground in his residence). Same problem volt at 1st recept 122 4th recept 138. He installed a new HR (no wiring in panel all wiring removed) to a bedroom on the 2nd floor and connect to existing receptacles in room (volt 122-144 at last receptacle). All plumbing in house is plastic, incoiming water service plastic. I told him to check his grounding at his panel. There is no #4 cu ground wire from subpanel to outside ground rod. There is no secondary ground. Hot water heater did not have a cu jumper across hot and cold. He has installed 3 ground rods with #4 cu connecting to meter and WP C/B outside. I'm having a hard time believing the volt measurements he is providing, especially the laying the 14-2 on the floor with 4 receptacles attached? My thought is the insulation on the branch circuit wiring could be damaged because of the lightning? He said all wires from house run through a small hole all bundled together no spacing just a big bundle. I wondering about induction? He has been replacing wires and devices for 3 weeks. He has moved out of the residence for fear of fire. My guess it's a grounding/bonding problem but not being there I am getting second hand rookie information. He's not sure but thinks there is a green bond screw in the neutral? Not sure what to tell him to do now.

If the house is haunted it is nearly impossible to solve the problem. I am pretty serious as some situations are not under our control

 

[roger]

If the house is haunted it is nearly impossible to solve the problem. I am pretty serious as some situations are not under our control

And with that said I think it's time to let this one go.



Roger