Have Microinverters Taken Over?

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isurf

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Electrical PE
Have others in the PV industry noticed microinverters have really taken over for non-utility scale projects? I work mostly on smaller systems (<250kWDC) where they have gotten very popular in SoCal. The new Enphase IQ8 series has some higher output options that look like a good option to pair with larger ~450W panels. Are there any other reputable manufacturers (besides Enphase) making higher output micros?
 
Depends how reputable you consider Solaredge to be. :p:rolleyes: Strictly speaking they do optimizers not micros.

I think you need to distinguish between residential/small commercial, medium to large commercial, and utility scale. Not sure micros (or optimizers) have taken over the middle category as much as you think.

There are a couple other micro companies out there, with almost as much track record as Enphase. Chilicon Power (acquired by Generac but apparently not rebranded, yet) and Ap systems. But I don't have any experience with them so I'll refrain from comment on them. I do like Enphase.
 
All the rooftop resi PV systems we build are done with microinverters. We use SolarEdge for most of our commercial systems.
 
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jaggedben said:
Depends how reputable you consider Solaredge to be. :p:rolleyes: Strictly speaking they do optimizers not micros.

I think you need to distinguish between residential/small commercial, medium to large commercial, and utility scale. Not sure micros (or optimizers) have taken over the middle category as much as you think.

There are a couple other micro companies out there, with almost as much track record as Enphase. Chilicon Power (acquired by Generac but apparently not rebranded, yet) and Ap systems. But I don't have any experience with them so I'll refrain from comment on them. I do like Enphase.
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I have been designing with Solaredge on just about every project over 10kW. They have a great design tool on their website that is free to use and I like their products. But the micro inverter seems like a much simpler system with less components and associated cost.
 
ggunn said:
All the rooftop resi PV systems we build are done with microinverters. We use SolarEdge for most of our commercial systems.
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Yep we are designing the same way. But the microinverters seem to be getting better and offering higher output options.
 
isurf said:
Yep we are designing the same way. But the microinverters seem to be getting better and offering higher output options.
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Most of our commercial systems are on three phase services. I don't know of any 3 phase microinverters, and banks of single phase inverters "around the triangle" are a pain.
 
ggunn said:
Most of our commercial systems are on three phase services. I don't know of any 3 phase microinverters, and banks of single phase inverters "around the triangle" are a pain.
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I believe Enphase has that ability now through their "Envoy Gateway" with some models (I'm not sure if this is the same as "around the triangle"). They also have a "coming soon" commercial 3 phase microinverter which I don't know much about.
 
isurf said:
I believe Enphase has that ability now through their "Envoy Gateway" with some models (I'm not sure if this is the same as "around the triangle"). They also have a "coming soon" commercial 3 phase microinverter which I don't know much about.
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I have interconnected three banks of microinverters phase to phase to a 208/120 three phase service - AB, BC, and CA - but as I said, it's a pain.
 
I can't speak to a statistical answer to "have micros taken over", but I do mostly all ground mount resi lately and do not use micros. I do have a roof project coming up and am on the fence about micros - it's a pretty large cost premium IMO.
 
electrofelon said:
I can't speak to a statistical answer to "have micros taken over", but I do mostly all ground mount resi lately and do not use micros. I do have a roof project coming up and am on the fence about micros - it's a pretty large cost premium IMO.
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Interesting. I thought there would be a cost savings, at least compared to the Solaredge system. I figured replacing the inverter and the power optimizer with a single micro would reduce labor and materials cost.
 
shortcircuit2 said:
I used SMA on my 12KW-DC groundmount. No RSD needed. I have had great results!

The new Enphase IQ8 provides "Sunlight Backup" without ESS...or can be microgrid built with ESS
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The IQ8 line does look to have more options/features than the previous IQ7. Does "sunlight backup" require an ATS of some sort?
 
isurf said:
Interesting. I thought there would be a cost savings, at least compared to the Solaredge system. I figured replacing the inverter and the power optimizer with a single micro would reduce labor and materials cost.
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It's been a few years since I analyzed it but back then the micros were only cheaper in equipment cost (including Envoy) at about 13 solar modules or less. Figure in the increased cost and hassle of servicing Solaredge and it's probably something like 15-16 solar panels. IOW, not getting into the commercial market.

That said, things may have changed and there are other intangibles and relationships that may make your milage vary.
 
isurf said:
The IQ8 line does look to have more options/features than the previous IQ7. Does "sunlight backup" require an ATS of some sort?
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Yes, of course, it requires the Enphase System Controller 2.

'Sunlight backup' is far from all it's cracked up to be. It can only support 4 20A single pole circuits in a backup panel, and they need load controllers. After the cost involved in installing the system controller and backup panel, might as well just install 1 or 2 3.3kWh batteries instead of load controls.
 
Wanted to post quick follow up. I talked to a rep for a company called Yotta Energy. They have a commercial micro inverter (either 208V-3Ph or 480V 3Ph) that you can connect up to 4 panels to (4 inputs and 2 MPPTs). The nice thing about them is they also have a battery storage option where you can mount a 1kWh battery on the back of each panel. It's a DC coupled battery so for the projects I typically work on this would be best for time of use demand offsetting. Overall seems like a good product/option that I will be looking into more in the coming weeks.
 
jaggedben said:
For what it's worth we discussed Yotta Energy here a bit over a year ago.
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Thanks! The batteries not being in a conditioned space was something I questioned the rep about also. He said there was no issue but I agree that under a PV panel in SoCal isn't going to be cool by any means. Batteries aside have you seen any threads on here where the Yotta microinverters have been used or discussed?
 
String inverters, in contrast to micro inverters, have the challenge of deciding which modules to use and how many modules go in a string in series and/or parallel. This is a complex problem to optimize. It requires that you carefully look at many prospective module specs and match these to prospective inverter requirements. (In software we call this sort of problem an explosion!) I think string inverter manufactures need to provide a much better software solution to this problem than they do now.

Furthermore, stringed panels need to face the sun the same way and have little or no shading to be efficient.

So yes for most residential rooftop settings micros are easier and more versatile. But I think string inverters are cheaper and because they have far less components probably more reliable, althought that is up for debate I would guess. So micors are more modular. Probably this will win most jobs. But they won't win large scale array jobs.
 
WaveGuide said:
String inverters, in contrast to micro inverters, have the challenge of deciding which modules to use and how many modules go in a string in series and/or parallel. This is a complex problem to optimize. It requires that you carefully look at many prospective module specs and match these to prospective inverter requirements. (In software we call this sort of problem an explosion!) I think string inverter manufactures need to provide a much better software solution to this problem than they do now.

Furthermore, stringed panels need to face the sun the same way and have little or no shading to be efficient.

So yes for most residential rooftop settings micros are easier and more versatile. But I think string inverters are cheaper and because they have far less components probably more reliable, althought that is up for debate I would guess. So micors are more modular. Probably this will win most jobs. But they won't win large scale array jobs.
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Very interesting. I would imagine if micros get to be cheaper with more commercial voltage options (which they are starting to) it may head that direction. It seems there are more calcs when using the string inverters with a single MPPT input at the inverter and more potential for downtime if a component fails (whole string goes out instead of one micro).
 
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