Having trouble saying no to a friend

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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
I have a buddy that is a EC, occasionally he calls me to work a day for him when he's swamped, or it's over his head.

He is doing a fire repair job. He has three guys working on power and lights, and he also picked up the data and burg. His guys are not too swift with that, so he asks me to help work on burg panel, demoing the damaged circuits, run new pipe and wire.

I spent a full day there with one of his helpers, a slow fellow that has no idea what he is doing. Now he wants me to go back and move the burg panel after his other guys cut it half out and move existing undamaged circuits, shortening them.

It's a rats nest and going to be a PITA to label cut and move 50'. There is also another half days work unrelated he wants me to do.


Hoe do you tell a friends thanks but headaches aren't for me?

I am slow, but have had a stellar first half this year and could go without this.
 
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realolman

Senior Member
I doubt it would kill you to do a friend a favor... you might want one yourself someday.

Can't you see yourself teaching this "slow" guy a few things and maybe making a difference in his life?

Golden Rule.

And no, Electricmanscott, it ain't "he who has the gold makes the rules".... well, yeah it is, but I meant the other one.:)
 
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nakulak

Senior Member
tell him you'd like to help him, but right now the amount of money you are making is . . ., well, insane, and, you're real sorry but, the only way you can put off the work you are doing is if he can pay you an extra couple thousand more (or insert amount here) a week.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
realolman said:
I doubt it would kill you to do a friend a favor... you might want one yourself someday.

Can't you see yourself teaching this "slow" guy a few things and maybe making a difference in his life?

Golden Rule.

And no, Electricmanscott, it ain't "he who has the gold makes the rules".... well, yeah it is, but I meant the other one.:)
Click to expand...

1st I meant to post this in the contacting forum, but I didn't.

2nd I tried to teach the guy. Hes not an electrican's helper, hes a "helper" and I nicely asked him to follow behind me and clean up when he wasn't helping me directly, at each drop I was doing. I was leaving a small pile of trimmed wires, EMT cull and parts boxes, the answer (there should have been no answer): Naaah we can leave it ,they have a cleaning crew. i pointed out they were cleaning up the junk on the warehouse floor from the businesses operations, not contruction. An hour later I ask again nicely, he says OK and then leaves. I cleaned up :)

i really really enjoy teaching when its well received. I doubt there would be any teaching moments
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
nakulak said:
tell him you'd like to help him, but right now the amount of money you are making is . . ., well, insane, and, you're real sorry but, the only way you can put off the work you are doing is if he can pay you an extra couple thousand more (or insert amount here) a week.
Click to expand...

Yea, its not a "prevailing wage" I give him a discount from my regular rate, I know he's losing money having me there anyway. So that makes it even easier to walk, its just he gave very little details, when I got there it was MUCh bigger than explained to me. I spent an entire day running pipe and picking up after myself, the way it sounded I would be there one day total.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Moderators!!!!!

Moderators!!!!!

If someone feels motivated to move this thread to the contracting and estimating forum, that would be cool.

Or not :)
 
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nakulak

Senior Member
i c, well in that case I'd go with realolman's advice (unless you never need help) and tell him he owes you a couple friday's at hooters too.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
nakulak said:
i c, well in that case I'd go with realolman's advice (unless you never need help) and tell him he owes you a couple friday's at hooters too.
Click to expand...

Funny you should say that, I don't get any favors from this guy. He's more of a personal friend, than professional.
 
tkb

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
nhfire77 said:
I have a buddy that is a EC, occasionally he calls me to work a day for him when he's swamped, or it's over his head.

He is doing a fire repair job. He has three guys working on power and lights, and he also picked up the data and burg. His guys are not too swift with that, so he asks me to help work on burg panel, demoing the damaged circuits, run new pipe and wire.

I spent a full day there with one of his helpers, a slow fellow that has no idea what he is doing. Now he wants me to go back and move the burg panel after his other guys cut it half out and move existing undamaged circuits, shortening them.

It's a rats nest and going to be a PITA to label cut and move 50'. There is also another half days work unrelated he wants me to do.


Hoe do you tell a friends thanks but headaches aren't for me?

I am slow, but have had a stellar first half this year and could go without this.
Click to expand...

If this is in MA, do you have a public safety license to work on burglar alarms?
 
Ruff-N

Ruff-N

Member
IMO sometimes friends, family, and work just don't mix, somtimes its better to just say know, cause if you hold back and it starts to eat at you, you may one day just blow your top and BAM! there goes that relationship :) Just be honest and say no.
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
What I'd do!

What I'd do!

Sanity and Strength Prayer;

God, I earnestly pray for the right ideal, for guidance in each questionable situation, for sanity, and for the strength to do the right thing.

I find myself saying something about the same on the sane jobs.
Frankly I pray all day, for guidance and insight!

I wish my friends would call with work, but that's another story! :)


On the PO side of things the man brought you in for your experience and expertizes, finish the job. Bill accordingly next time!
 
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Dereklee

New member
Location
china
Well, i think many guys would encounter such occasion, however, if you don't frankly tell your friends, you'll have to suffer.
Sometimes it is a bit hard to say no, esp. to your friends, yet you have to learn to do that.
 
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Last Leg

Member
Location
Houston, TX
Is there any reason your 'friend' can't do the leg work on this, ie, moving panel, conduit, etc. himself, and you can instruct him as to the particulars? I would request him to give up his time if you are giving yours. If he doesn't have the time, maybe you could recommend someone else.
 
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satcom

Senior Member
Business and friends usually don,t mix well, It sounds like there was a big problem from day one, it appears your friend took on the job, and din't price it right, then sees he is in deep, and no money to operate with, he calls you in, and I guess you din't agree, up front, what you needed to work on this project, that is something you need to discuss before you start any work, and you also need to discuss the scope of work he expects you to complete, if you want to remain friends and stay in business, then it is best to operate like a business, and never cut your break even costs, and when he helps you expect to pay him his rates, remain friends.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
In the interest of full disclosure, I previously worked for this outfit and left becuase of these headaches. I went into business so I could pick and choose what jobs I do.

Satcom: When I told him how much work was left after I did what I could, he said, great were already losing money on that end. Yes it was poorly managed, and still is. Oh, I forgot to mention there was only one lift and the priority was feeder wiring for a subpanel to get machinery working, so waiting for the lift, and having to stop when the other crew needed it was a PITA.

I told him I wasn't interested in going back and he would need to get his normal alarm tech to finish, surprise now he was available, but wasn't when I was there.

He asked me to do the work his in house guy was going to do. I guess I will, they're service calls, not a nightmare repair job.

I don't want to sound whiny, but I pick and choose what i do carefully, normally. I should have said no, even though the conduit I put in his guy would have to wait for the other crew to put in, which would have delayed this even further.
 
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jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Yea, that can be a tough one. You want to help your friends all you can, but sometimes it can drag you down. I've had friends want to work with me, not only electrical but other things in the past. Some worked out well, some were a disaster. That's especially hard if a person is already a good friend. Sometimes 2 guys have a wide gap between their skills/talents or a wide gap between work attitudes. Attitude sounds like the problem w/ the helper. Maybe tell him you can finish out the week or next couple of days, but you have work getting behind that you need to attend to. If he's a true friend, he will understand that.

If he's weak in alarm work, maybe he should hire someone strong in that. I try my best not to take on work I don't have the expertise to do or quickly learn. When I worked for someone else and could call them, I would take on a lot more. Different when the buck stops with me. I haven't done any alarm work in a long time and will not touch it unless I'm coordinating with alarm contractor.

I have a similar situation with 1 or 2 guys that call me sometimes. I like them and have used them a little but I'd not be comfortable with them full time. I don't ask for perfection, but it's good to have people who can think for themselves a little and take some bit of ownership in the job. The thinking they do runs the wrong way and lots of their work has to be checked. They don't learn much or retain much. I wish I could find a couple of guys I used to know at a former employer. Green helpers at the time, but wanted to learn and listened well, had good instincts, etc. They are probably well situated with someone now.
 
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