Hazardous Conditions

[lifelong learner]

Hi Everyone -I'm new to this forum. Any help on making the photo visible without having to click the link is appreciated.

Found this during a recent site inspection. Site staff told me they would just grab a screwdriver and put it back on. They had recently completed OSHA 10. Think they may need retraining!? Thoughts?


A mod fixed it

 

[BillyMac59]

Not the best of installs BUT where is it? In a locked vault accessible only to competent individuals? Or the middle of a production area?

 

[petersonra]

[IMG}https://www.flickr.com/photos/200848896@N07/shares/3Cr6ty2Y44
Hi Everyone -I'm new to this forum. Any help on making the photo visible without having to click the link is appreciated.

Found this during a recent site inspection. Site staff told me they would just grab a screwdriver and put it back on. They had recently completed OSHA 10. Think they may need retraining!? Thoughts?

I think new users have to wait some number of posts before they can use pictures. Eventually you will get an icon that says "attach files" that you can use to upload pictures and other files. There is a size limit.

What is your point? Someone took the cover off and went to lunch. Bad idea but it is not like it is the worst thing anyone has ever done. Supervisor needs to make it clear this is not a good thing and tell him not to do it again.

 

[lifelong learner]

Not the best of installs BUT where is it? In a locked vault accessible only to competent individuals? Or the middle of a production area?

This is located in a hallway, behind a couple wooden cabinet doors, which do not lock. The hallway is a place frequented by general public.

 

[lifelong learner]

I think new users have to wait some number of posts before they can use pictures. Eventually you will get an icon that says "attach files" that you can use to upload pictures and other files. There is a size limit.

What is your point? Someone took the cover off and went to lunch. Bad idea but it is not like it is the worst thing anyone has ever done. Supervisor needs to make it clear this is not a good thing and tell him not to do it again.

Ok cool. I guess I'll have to wait till I'm deemed worthy of posting pics! lol.
As to your point, this may be an "out to lunch" situation, but not how you described it. This panel was serviced by one of the facilities techs during a past work order and left like that for months until we showed up and saw it. See my reply to BillyMac59 re: location. It's a completely unsecure location where unqualified public pass by regularly, including curious kids who may want to know what's behind these cool wooden doors...
The staff I mentioned who said he'd just put it back on is also not a qualified person, hence my comment as to whether you all thought he may need to retake his OSHA 10, or at least the Electrical part of it.
I guess my overall question would be to you all who are qualified persons (I'm not an electrician) how dangerous is this? Could someone get seriously injured or worse messing with this? My limited understanding of electrical safety is that this could kill someone. Am I overreacting?
I appreciate your thoughts and expertise, which is why I joined this forum, to learn from you all.
Thanks!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Ok cool. I guess I'll have to wait till I'm deemed worthy of posting pics! lol.
As to your point, this may be an "out to lunch" situation, but not how you described it. This panel was serviced by one of the facilities techs during a past work order and left like that for months until we showed up and saw it. See my reply to BillyMac59 re: location. It's a completely unsecure location where unqualified public pass by regularly, including curious kids who may want to know what's behind these cool wooden doors...
The staff I mentioned who said he'd just put it back on is also not a qualified person, hence my comment as to whether you all thought he may need to retake his OSHA 10, or at least the Electrical part of it.
I guess my overall question would be to you all who are qualified persons (I'm not an electrician) how dangerous is this? Could someone get seriously injured or worse messing with this? My limited understanding of electrical safety is that this could kill someone. Am I overreacting?
I appreciate your thoughts and expertise, which is why I joined this forum, to learn from you all.
Thanks!

There is always a chance someone can get killed but very unlikely by installing the panel cover. Most all the connections are behind the internal plate that offers some protection but I am by no means saying it is okay to leave it like this.

Btw, I inserted the pic in the first post

 

[lifelong learner]

There is always a chance someone can get killed but very unlikely by installing the panel cover. Most all the connections are behind the internal plate that offers some protection but I am by no means saying it is okay to leave it like this.

Btw, I inserted the pic in the first post

thanks for fixing the pic. Any chance you can add the ability for me to do it? This is primarily what I'll be posting - pics with questions.
Thanks for the insight, it's always helpful to know the "actual risk" vs. the "perceived risk" from people who do this kind of work.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

thanks for fixing the pic. Any chance you can add the ability for me to do it? This is primarily what I'll be posting - pics with questions.
Thanks for the insight, it's always helpful to know the "actual risk" vs. the "perceived risk" from people who do this kind of work.

I don't have that power. Try this. PC hit "windows shift s" then highlight the image from your file and then paste it in the body of the post. That might work

 

[petersonra]

This is located in a hallway, behind a couple wooden cabinet doors, which do not lock. The hallway is a place frequented by general public.

I don't recall there is any NEC requirement to prevent general access to a panelboard.

 

[lifelong learner]

I don't recall there is any NEC requirement to prevent general access to a panelboard.

My general question was about the inherent danger of the situation, and to whether the unqualified staff was being too nonchalant about the danger present. That's what I don't really know.

But to your point - NEC may not, I'm not very familiar with that code, but OSHA does. Here's those citations for your reference in case it applies to situations you may encounter.

1910.303(g)
600 Volts, nominal, or less. This paragraph applies to electric equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground.

1910.303(g)(2)
Guarding of live parts.

1910.303(g)(2)(i)
Except as elsewhere required or permitted by this standard, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by use of approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures or by any of the following means:

1910.303(g)(2)(i)(A)
By location in a room, vault, or similar enclosure that is accessible only to qualified persons;

1910.303(g)(2)(i)(B)
By suitable permanent, substantial partitions or screens so arranged so that only qualified persons will have access to the space within reach of the live parts. Any openings in such partitions or screens shall be so sized and located that persons are not likely to come into accidental contact with the live parts or to bring conducting objects into contact with them;

1910.303(g)(2)(i)(C)
By placement on a suitable balcony, gallery, or platform so elevated and otherwise located as to prevent access by unqualified persons; or

1910.303(g)(2)(i)(D)
By elevation of 2.44 m (8.0 ft) or more above the floor or other working surface.

1910.303(g)(2)(ii)
In locations where electric equipment is likely to be exposed to physical damage, enclosures or guards shall be so arranged and of such strength as to prevent such damage.

1910.303(g)(2)(iii)
Entrances to rooms and other guarded locations containing exposed live parts shall be marked with conspicuous warning signs forbidding unqualified persons to enter.

 

[petersonra]

I don't disagree that they should not have left the cover off. If the covers are on, they have no exposed live parts so none of what you cited matters.

But it is very common for panelboards to be in unlocked closets in areas where anyone walking by could access them.

 

[Elect117]

I am under the impression that they should be trained again.

A trained or licensed individual would have reinstalled the cover when they left. They are most likely doing work on it themselves. I can't make the judgement on whether they are qualified to do that kind of work, but regardless, failing to reinstall the covers is a big "no-no".

 

[petersonra]

A trained or licensed individual would have reinstalled the cover when they left.

What makes you think that? Neither training nor licensing prevents mistakes, laziness, or bad judgement. And neither formal training or licensing is any real evidence of competency.

 

[ptonsparky]

Stuff happens. People forget. Put it on the list for 'remember or don't forget to...' at the next safety meeting.

 

[Elect117]

I am pretty sure retraining is usually the solution to correcting mistakes and bad judgement. Like driving school or pilots being required to do more simulator hours.