health care facilities

[sleepy]

under slab, the use of pvc, no, i say you need to use rigid steel conduit. i know it is in the code but i cannot find it, any help
thank you

 

[tshea]

Re: health care facilities

underslab is outside the building.
Where are you running under the slab? Look at 517.10 for applicability of patient care areas.
517.13A calls for metal raceway.

[ November 23, 2005, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: tshea ]

 

[sleepy]

Re: health care facilities

under slab is under the space

 

[charlie b]

Re: health care facilities

517.30(C)(3) says you can't use non-metallic raceway for branch circuits that supply patient care areas. I didn't see any other restrictions against PVC in a hospital.

 

[tshea]

Re: health care facilities

Originally posted by sleepy:
under slab is under the space

What space? Patient care space? Office space? Electric room space? Help us help you. Be more specific.

 

[roger]

Re: health care facilities

There are different rules for patient care areas, nonpatient care areas, Emergency system, Normal system, the Equipment branch etc....

As Tshea says, you need to be specific.

Roger

 

[sleepy]

Re: health care facilities

health care facilities(specific area is dental)
dental space

 

[roger]

Re: health care facilities

Sleepy, I agree with you that this space must use metal raceways underslab.

517.10 Applicability
(A) Applicability Part II shall apply to patient care areas of all health care facilities.
(B) Not Covered Part II shall not apply to the following:
(1) Business offices, corridors, waiting rooms, and the like in clinics, medical and dental offices, and outpatient facilities
(2) Areas of nursing homes and limited care facilities wired in accordance with Chapters 1 through 4 of this Code where these areas are used exclusively as patient sleeping rooms

517.13 Grounding of Receptacles and Fixed Electric Equipment in Patient Care Areas
Wiring in patient care areas shall comply with 517.13(A) and 517.13(B).
(A) Wiring Methods All branch circuits serving patient care areas shall be provided with a ground path for fault current by installation in a metal raceway system, or a cable having a metallic armor or sheath assembly. The metal raceway system, or metallic cable armor, or sheath assembly shall itself qualify as an equipment grounding return path in accordance with 250.118.

Roger

 

[sleepy]

Re: health care facilities

ok i see in 517.13 about cable having metallic armor or sheathing. we have a dental area on the first floor where the contractor has run pvc in the concrete slab under our space. is there anywhere that the code mentions about concrete slab. thank you

 

[roger]

Re: health care facilities

Sleepy, forget about the "or a cable having a metallic armor or sheath assembly."

Let's remove that from the article and it will read as follows.

517.13 Grounding of Receptacles and Fixed Electric Equipment in Patient Care Areas
Wiring in patient care areas shall comply with 517.13(A) and 517.13(B).
(A) Wiring Methods All branch circuits serving patient care areas shall be provided with a ground path for fault current by installation in a metal raceway system. The metal raceway system shall itself qualify as an equipment grounding return path in accordance with 250.118.

A metal raceway must be used to serve this area regardless of whether it is in the ceiling, walls, or under the slab.

Roger

[ November 23, 2005, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[raider1]

Re: health care facilities

Sleepy,

Roger's post shows the applicable article for a patient care area. It clearly states that a branch circuit for a patient care area needs to be run in a metal raceway system. It doesn't matter if it is under a slab or not.

You beat me to it Roger.

(edited to add last sentence)

Chris

[ November 23, 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: raider1 ]

 

[infinity]

Re: health care facilities

ok i see in 517.13 about cable having metallic armor or sheathing. we have a dental area on the first floor where the contractor has run pvc in the concrete slab under our space. is there anywhere that the code mentions about concrete slab. thank you

So is this conduit feeding something in the patient care area or is simply within the concrete and terminating somewhere else?

 

[charlie b]

Re: health care facilities

That was my question too, Infinity. If this conduit does not contain branch circuit wiring that serves the patient care area, then 517.13 would not apply to that conduit.

So, sleepy, what is the purpose of the conduit you are talking about?

 

[tshea]

Re: health care facilities

Originally posted by sleepy:
we have a dental area on the first floor where the contractor has run pvc in the concrete slab under our space.

IF the PVC is "just passing through" so what! The point is--does the PVC conduit feed any branch circuit in the patient care space? Now if the PVC is feeding the floor outlet under the dental chair, YOU have a violation!

 

[jcervone@santonelectric]

Re: health care facilities

If the PVC under the slab has already been covered could you pull in a Hospital grade MC cable to the Dental chairs?

Originally posted by roger:
Sleepy, I agree with you that this space must use metal raceways underslab.

517.10 Applicability
(A) Applicability Part II shall apply to patient care areas of all health care facilities.
(B) Not Covered Part II shall not apply to the following:
(1) Business offices, corridors, waiting rooms, and the like in clinics, medical and dental offices, and outpatient facilities
(2) Areas of nursing homes and limited care facilities wired in accordance with Chapters 1 through 4 of this Code where these areas are used exclusively as patient sleeping rooms

517.13 Grounding of Receptacles and Fixed Electric Equipment in Patient Care Areas
Wiring in patient care areas shall comply with 517.13(A) and 517.13(B).
(A) Wiring Methods All branch circuits serving patient care areas shall be provided with a ground path for fault current by installation in a metal raceway system, or a cable having a metallic armor or sheath assembly. The metal raceway system, or metallic cable armor, or sheath assembly shall itself qualify as an equipment grounding return path in accordance with 250.118.

Roger

 

[mikeames]

Re: health care facilities

I know what the code says, but what is the reason for required metal conduit? If its grounding cant that be achieved different ways. Why does the NEC view this as being better or safer?

 

[tom baker]

Re: health care facilities

The CMP wants a redundant equipment grounding path.