help needed for separate electrical inspections

[inspector23]

I work for a municipality that does not have a separate electrical inspection department within its building and safety department. We have personnel from various trade backgrounds inspecting electrical work. We are all certified as building inspectors, but I am the only one of two specifically certified as residential and commercial electrical inspectors.

I am compiling my presentation to my Building Official outlining all the advantages to the City for having electrical certified inspectors doing all electrical inspections.

Any ideas/suggestions/comments to bolster my case would be greatly appreciated !

 

[pierre]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Electrical aspects of building are much different than structural, mechnical or plumbing.

Understanding theory, design and installation procedures particular to the electrical industry can be very complex and the need to know the specifics of code and theory make for a better and safer inspection for the consumer.

I can teach almost anyone to pass the tests. Having practical experience in the field and book knowledge make for a better (qualified) inspector.

 

[iwire]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Originally posted by pierre:
I can teach almost anyone to pass the tests.

A bit of a double edge sword for a guy like yourself.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Here's an excerpt from a Tom Henry publication. It makes some interesting points relating to this topic:

The big problem today that I see in the industry is, in some cases we have complex decisions being made by people with little or no training and possibly no understanding of the implications of their decsions.

The complexity of the technology and the code changing rapidly requires a higher skill level.

The inspector should be one of the most highly skilled professionals in the construction industry. Often he must possess the knowledge of an engineer, educator, business consultant, etc.

At a time when the country is experiencing its greatest need for highly competent inspectors, local government budget cuts are pushing some inspectors to becoming "the jack-of-all-trades, master of none."

The most important inspection for safety, an electrical inspection, is not even required in some areas of the country! Have you ever read in a newspaper where water started a fire? Has your local newspaper ever contained anarticle where a termite caused an electrocution? Electricity has been known to start fires and electrocute people.

Our society is becoming more litigious, and the decisions the inspector makes will be examined more closely. Municipalities that cut inspection corners will pay the price down the road, either in more fires or in lawsuites. Insurance companies have made several recent attempts to sue, citing failure to properly inspect buildings for hazards.

Inspection is a very demanding career, and the technical expertise required to handle the job means that individuals today tend to be more educated than before. Education is the key.

There is an article in the mosr recent IAEI magazine that also discusses this issue. You might want to check that out.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

I would like to buffer my last post by stating that the electrical inspection is not the most important inspection, they all are. After Hurricane Charley, it was very evident the need for good building codes and enforcement of those building codes.

When all was said and done, electrical related accidents were none existant, whereas structural and mechanical issues were the key issues. That seems obvious when dealing with wind and rain related destruction, but it was the little things that made the most impact. Signs, pool cages, sheds, a/c units, pool heaters, the list is endless of items and structures that were not inspected or not installed to specific codes standards that during the storm became projectiles that resulted in more damage and more debry to become free.

Funding is the key component. In my county, we seem to have a 5 year cycle of elevated drug use by minors. What is actually happening is attention and money is focused at the problem until it goes away. Then the funding stops because it appears to no longer be a problem. But the problem comes back because no one is paying attention to it. Again more attention starts being directed towards it and the cycle repeats.

The same will happen for the building industry in various communities. There will be a lack of fires or accidents relating to building and construction so it will be perceived as a lack of need for good inspections and code enforcement. But a few later when these structures start having problems, people will become concerned and start demanding better inspections and better codes. Its a horrible cycle.

I feel if education and training is sufficient, a person can be an effective "combination" inspector. In most cases however, the person should have an extensive skill set and experience with the particular trade they inspect. It's just not enough to only know the codes and what is or is not permitted to be done.

 

[inspector23]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Thank you for the Tom Henry quote, it will be helpful.

 

[pierre]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Bob
You are so right!!! The only difference may be that I care and won't teach just any soul

 

[iwire]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Originally posted by pierre:
The only difference may be that I care and won't teach just any soul

I have no doubt of that.

If you only cared about the $ it would be easy.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Originally posted by iwire:

If you only cared about the $ ......

These words that you have spoken are from the heart of a true teacher.
With out saying anything more than these words you have told me that YOU are one of the best instructors on the market today.

I can not find a smiley that expresses pride so pretend that one is here

 

[charlie b]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Let me add a counter-counter argument to the counter-argument that the "bosses" are going to throw your way.

They will say that they can't afford to have a team of experts (i.e., an electrical expert, and a structural expert, and a piping expert) going out together (i.e., all three at the same time to the same location) to make every inspection. They can't pay three people to do one job. They will say that every Inspector must have as broad an experience base as possible, and that hiring a specialist in electrical inspection is no more worth the extra cost than would a structural specialist or a piping specialist.

To that I would simply respond that homeowners don't knock down and move their own walls, and very infrequently would they remodel their own piping systems. But they will do their own electrical work. They will fix the "no ground alarm" on their computer's UPS by connecting ground to neutral at the receptacle. Then will change out a 15 amp breaker with a 20 amp breaker (i.e., just because the 15 kept tripping), and they will not pay attention to wire sizes. They will any number of stupid and dangerous things, and then they will sell the house. They will never even know of the tragedy that they had caused, because they will be long gone from the neighborhood by the time the tragedy takes place. Who is there to protect the future homeowner from the mistakes of the previous homeowner? If not the personnel from the Building Inspection Department, then who?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Charlie,

To that I would simply respond that homeowners don't knock down and move their own walls, and very infrequently would they remodel their own piping systems.

That is not true in this area. The above work by homeowners is very common here.
don

 

[inspector23]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Thank you, Charlie, for that great response. That is a very good point with a valid, non-emotional conclusion that will help me overcome the money issue.

Like all municipalities, we are fighting a budget crunch. I just happen to believe separate electrical inspections are an investment in our citizens that our city needs to make a commitment in.

All it takes is one overstuffed ceiling fan box and you get stuff like http://www.paulbowyer.info/.

Katy is twelve, and will never again have her own ears, or nose, or be able to walk without the aid of supports for her legs. On that fateful night, she chose to spend the night with her Grandparents, and the lives of many will never be the same.

That is the emotional part of the process to implement our own electrical inspections, but I need to have more ammunition based in cold, hard facts to help my case get through the hoops. Thanks again, Charlie - that is the kind of help I am requesting.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Originally posted by charlie b:
They will any number of stupid and dangerous things, and then they will sell the house. They will never even know of the tragedy that they had caused, because they will be long gone from the neighborhood by the time the tragedy takes place. Who is there to protect the future homeowner from the mistakes of the previous homeowner? If not the personnel from the Building Inspection Department, then who?

The prospective new homeowner's own privately hired building inspector.

At some point, people need to take responsibility for their own actions, and in this example, a person who purchases another's home has to take responsibility for their decision making skills.

 

[inspector23]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections



[ September 20, 2005, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: inspector23 ]

 

[pierre]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

I was hired yesterday to do an independant inspection of a house. The prospective home buyer is not thrilled with his HI and wants me to take a further look at the electric. If, IF the homeowner will let us in, I will let you know if his doubts have merit.

 

[butch]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

Inspector23, YOU are so right with your statement, I just recently received my Electrical contractors compency card I work for the State Department doing only government jobs. When I did job at Columbus AFB,in Miss. I lived in a little town called Amory, Miss. outside the city limits you were not required to have an electrician do the electrical work, I walked down the street to visit a new sub division and I asked the carpenter who was doing the electrical work and they said we are, so I looked around and couldnt believe that this work would pass in any juristiction, they had a 2" hole in the top of the panel with no connector whatsoever all the romex was just gramed in there. The carpenter said thats the way we always do it. Thats just to mention one thing I saw. I would be scared to live in a house such as that.They surely need an Electrical Inspector.Thank you so much for bringing this up I hope it sheds some light on the subject. Someone mentioned its not a hobby.

 

[haskindm]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

If the inspectors in your area are considered to be the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" (AHJ) as they are in many areas, then you need to read the duties of the AHJ in 90.1 - 90.4. These duties include interpreting the code, granting exceptions (in writing), etc. How can an untrained, unqualified, general inspector adequately fulfil those responsibilities?

 

[KyawaComm]

Re: help needed for separate electrical inspections

I just can't see how any municipality is in a budget crunch w/respect to permits and inspections. For the most part, housing and construction are what's keeping the economy going and has been for the last 5 years. There's plenty of incoming fees to support an appropriate infrastructure for the municipalities. If they say they are facing a budget crunch, either people are building houses w/o permits or "they" are lying.